Armstrong charged and banned
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One of the reasons it still matters is that LA is still competing, Bruyneels is still a DS and Dr Ferrari is still offering 'training advice'.
I was pleased to see Ullrich et al get his come-uppance but he's history so it matters less to me than catching current cheats.
This is another myth that we are more anti LA. Not so. We argued equally strongly against Ricco, Landis, Tyler Chimera, Stinkowitz, Basso, Scarponi, and the long-haired Italian who flew to the mountains jersey a couple of years back.
Armstrong is simply a bigger story due to his beyond-cycling fame and 7 wins. Further to fall.
I was pleased to see Ullrich et al get his come-uppance but he's history so it matters less to me than catching current cheats.
This is another myth that we are more anti LA. Not so. We argued equally strongly against Ricco, Landis, Tyler Chimera, Stinkowitz, Basso, Scarponi, and the long-haired Italian who flew to the mountains jersey a couple of years back.
Armstrong is simply a bigger story due to his beyond-cycling fame and 7 wins. Further to fall.
They're the ones whose identity is being protected in case LA threatens them.
smutchin
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By the way, I'm not really a Lance hater. At the time, I enjoyed watching all those Tours he won, and nothing can take away from that. I was always more of an Ullrich fan, tbh, but he turned out to have feet of clay too. None of which was particularly surprising, of course. i even enjoyed watching the likes of Pantani and Virenque, despite everything.
Things like his treatment of Simeoni were what spoilt the enjoyment to be had from watching him race. I've never seen anything like that in pro cycling before or since. Shoddy.
And his behaviour outside racing hasn't been very much to his credit either.
But you know, I admit I did get a frisson of excitement from things like watching him blitz the Alpe d'Huez time trial, however he did it.
d.
Things like his treatment of Simeoni were what spoilt the enjoyment to be had from watching him race. I've never seen anything like that in pro cycling before or since. Shoddy.
And his behaviour outside racing hasn't been very much to his credit either.
But you know, I admit I did get a frisson of excitement from things like watching him blitz the Alpe d'Huez time trial, however he did it.
d.
When he took 3 minutes out of another rider who was doped!!!
Or was that the event that made Basso turn to Dr Fuentes?
Andrew_P
In between here and there
Is it not the sport itself not to blame? The TdF is good example of asking the almost if not completely impossible of speed and massive endurance to win it. I also think the same applies to Ironman and Triathlons at pro level. Come to think of it most top level sports demand some sort of super human endeavour.
If you start off in complete naivety and seek to make a living at these sports, in fact almost any other sport and then you suddenly realise you need some help to win and earn a good living from your hard training, then what? Either you do the same or return and go back to doing a normal job. Alot of pro atheltes have sacrificed their education or are not gifted in that sphere. I can really see how someone like Bruyneels or any other team manager/coach/agent could manipulate someone in to competeing on a "Level Playing field" for their own and the one taking the drugs benefit.
And where is the line drawn Creatine, Whey Powder, Amino Acid pills or highly financed teams the latter is a huge benefit in Cycling as you all know having the best climbers sprinters and the strongest Domestiques to deliver someone to the yellow jersey, these are all unnatural advantages does anyone consider them to be more natural than EPO or some such?
If you start off in complete naivety and seek to make a living at these sports, in fact almost any other sport and then you suddenly realise you need some help to win and earn a good living from your hard training, then what? Either you do the same or return and go back to doing a normal job. Alot of pro atheltes have sacrificed their education or are not gifted in that sphere. I can really see how someone like Bruyneels or any other team manager/coach/agent could manipulate someone in to competeing on a "Level Playing field" for their own and the one taking the drugs benefit.
And where is the line drawn Creatine, Whey Powder, Amino Acid pills or highly financed teams the latter is a huge benefit in Cycling as you all know having the best climbers sprinters and the strongest Domestiques to deliver someone to the yellow jersey, these are all unnatural advantages does anyone consider them to be more natural than EPO or some such?
Perhaps that's because you don't really follow bike racing. The Simeoni incident, which was the tipping point for so many bike racing fans for coming round to the realisation that LA was an arrogant bully, was seen live by millions of people.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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No, you're mistaken. It's about a balance of probabilities. The evidence against Contador probably wouldn't have been strong enough to get a guilty verdict in a court of law, but in the context of the rules of the sport, the evidence is deemed strong enough to say that he very probably cheated.
He's been stripped of a sporting title, not convicted of a crime.
The evidence against Lance seems to be of a similar nature. But yes, let's see how the investigation pans out before jumping to any conclusions - I'm all for anyone getting a fair hearing, even Lance.
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lukesdad
Guest
Leaving aside LA for the moment, this is my take on it also. It's not really sport is it ? Rather who's got the most money wins. You only have to look at F1, football and SKY.
If it's not on the WADA list it's OK.
EPO was a game changer. Performance boosts of up to 25% and not everyone responds to it in the same way, so it's not even equal amongst dopers. You can't say, they were all doping and he was the best, it's just the luck of the draw, physiologically speaking.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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Quite. I remember watching the Simeoni incident unfolding on live TV and wondering what the hell was going on. Whatever it was, it wasn't bike racing.
I've been trying to find a YouTube clip but no joy so far - which is pretty suspicious in itself... #conspiracytheory
d.
This is simply not true. Most observers believe Wiggins and Evans, to name but two, are clean. Evans would have won a few more TdFs if that was true albeit at a slightly slower pace than the cheats who did win.
lukesdad
Guest
Quite. I remember watching the Simeoni incident unfolding on live TV and wondering what the hell was going on. Whatever it was, it wasn't bike racing.
I've been trying to find a YouTube clip but no joy so far - which is pretty suspicious in itself... #conspiracytheory
d.
..and as you'll also remember, the view on Simeoni within the peleton was pretty unanimous.
smutchin
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Yes, I agree to some extent, which is why I describe Millar as a "victim".
On the other hand, he did cheat, deliberately and wilfully. He could have chosen to ride clean and lose nobly, or leave the sport instead. But it's easy to take the moral high ground and hard to know what one would do if one found oneself in similar circumstances.
d.
smutchin
Cat 6 Racer
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..and as you'll also remember, the view on Simeoni within the peleton was pretty unanimous.
A peloton containing the likes of Basso, Ullrich, Kloden et al...
d.
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