Are we being forced to go electric?

[Rusty Nails]

Deuce!

Tie break soon.

 

[Alex321]

Still 3% involved in the recall that haven't been fixed.

And none of the manufacturers like having a recall listed against them.

Nobody has said that EVs are perfect.

But even the ones with the worst record are better than most ICE vehicles. And that is only going to improve further as early-adopter issues are ironed out.

They still won't be perfect.

 

[classic33]

Nobody has said that EVs are perfect.

But even the ones with the worst record are better than most ICE vehicles. And that is only going to improve further as early-adopter issues are ironed out.

They still won't be perfect.

No-one has said either battery powered or petrol/diesel powered are perfect.

But there's nowt new about battery powered vehicles. So the "early adopters" won't be around at this moment in time.

 

[Jameshow]

Possible-no known incidences of accident

So rare instances of reduced power steering assist. Resolved with over the air software update

Still a mechanical control system though I expect.

Are the brakes still hydraulic?

One thing I don't like is when a ev brakes without showing brake lights v disconcerting tbh.

 

[CXRAndy]

Still 3% involved in the recall that haven't been fixed.

And none of the manufacturers like having a recall listed against them.

Oh no my car so unsafe 😨

Awaiting software download

 

[CXRAndy]

Still a mechanical control system though I expect.

Are the brakes still hydraulic?

One thing I don't like is when a ev brakes without showing brake lights v disconcerting tbh.

If you lift off quickly the brake lights are lit because regen is fairly strong at deceleration. Without brake lights tailgaters would have no chance

 

[Jameshow]

If you lift off quickly the brake lights are lit because regen is fairly strong at deceleration. Without brake lights tailgaters would have no chance

This was a I pace jaguar.

 

[CXRAndy]

This was a I pace jaguar.

Ipace will be the same, probably just below threshold to activate the brake light.

Re steering yes steering is still mechanically connection

 

[Alex321]

No-one has said either battery powered or petrol/diesel powered are perfect.

But there's nowt new about battery powered vehicles. So the "early adopters" won't be around at this moment in time.

Just because none of the individual components are new does not mean "there is nowt new".

Nor does the fact there have been battery powered milk floats around for donkey's years mean there is "nowt new" in modern electric cars.

 

[icowden]

Still 3% involved in the recall that haven't been fixed.
And none of the manufacturers like having a recall listed against them.

And do the ICE manufacturers always get 100% of the vehicles recalled?

In a 2016 survey only Tesla scored 100% for timeliness of recall, with the industry average being 66%. Another report I found from 2014 shows that 80% completion is considered average for cars 1-3 years old and 76% for 1-5 years old, dropping to 56% for cars over 5 years old.

That 97% is looking pretty good now! Other manufacturers can only *dream* of hitting a 97% recall rate. And don't forget - that remaining 3% don't have to do *anything* other than let the car wirelessly download a software update. No appointment at a service centre.

 

[presta]

EVs are far more reliable than those explosion driven cars.

They ought to be in theory, but they aren't. A couple of years ago Which compared the reliability of petrol, diesel, hybrid & electric, and electric came bottom. It's not surprising, they aren't a mature technology yet, they haven't spent over a century developing them in large quantity.

But even the ones with the worst record are better than most ICE vehicles.

In this month's Car Guide supplement, Which rate 31 brands for reliability on a scale of 1 to 5 (p7). There were two below Tesla (Alfa & Bentley), 6 on the same score (Audi, Fiat, Jag, Land Rover, Porsche, Subaru), and 22 more reliable. The Tesla model S gets "the wooden spoon for reliability" (p26), and 49% of the model X have faults, 23% of them break down (p6).

Interestingly, since the electricity price hike electric cars are only cheaper to run if you charge at home, but not using rapid chargers.

 

[Alex321]

Interestingly, since the electricity price hike electric cars are only cheaper to run if you charge at home, but not using rapid chargers.

The report suggesting that was comparing apples to oranges. If you had compared the cost per mile using rapid chargers to the cost per mile using motorway fuel prices, that would have been a much fairer test, and costs would have been much closer, probably still in favour of EVs.

They were comparing ICE vehicles filling up at average petrol/diesel prices (which are generally much lower than motorway service prices) to EV supercharger prices.

 

[cougie uk]

Interestingly, since the electricity price hike electric cars are only cheaper to run if you charge at home, but not using rapid chargers.

Massively cheaper charging at home - as most users do.
Using the rapid charger price is as misleading as using motorway petrol prices to show how expensive an ICE car is to run.

 

[icowden]

In this month's Car Guide supplement, Which rate 31 brands for reliability on a scale of 1 to 5 (p7). There were two below Tesla (Alfa & Bentley), 6 on the same score (Audi, Fiat, Jag, Land Rover, Porsche, Subaru), and 22 more reliable. The Tesla model S gets "the wooden spoon for reliability" (p26), and 49% of the model X have faults, 23% of them break down (p6).

I suspect that, like the "Which Car" survey I found, the figures are massively misleading. The figures around Tesla S and X tend to include all models going back to 2012 when relatively few were made. How did the Tesla 3 and Tesla Y fare?

 

[lazybloke]

That's chalk and cheese. None of the recalls actually involved a recall.

We're obviously looking at different information. I was using numbers from an American page (MHTSA.gov) which listed 19 recalls for the Model 3.

They include: intermittant tail-light outages, incorrectly fitted airbags, incorrectly anchored rear seatbelts, suspension links that work loose from the subframe, a collision avoidance system that not only has transposed camera feeds but also has a comms error that results in unexpected emergency stops. Oh, and loose brake caliper bolts on the front of the vehicle.

Just a quick software update.

Clearly not just software updates. Anyway, it would be wrong to downplay the serious of software issues in a moden vehicle.

Build quality has improved hugely - they did go through some issues with the first few batches of Model 3s, but I think those have been ironed out now.

Not quite. Looks like the Model 3 problems haven't bettered the first year on record yet.

Year ------- number of safety recalls
2017 : 9
2018 : 11
2019 : 14
2020 : 14
2021 : 13
2022 : 9
2023 : TBC (1 so far)

If you measure reliability in terms of stuff actually breaking down or making the car undriveable,

Yeah, those JD Power, Consumer Reports and Which surveys are probably rubbish.

The recalls are tiny, mostly software updates. There have been some tiny mechanical recalls like tightening a seatbelt bolt on the left side rear seat.

The build quality from the early 2013-15 Model S weren't that good. Since 2017 and the release of 2019 model 3 quality has been far better. I would say comparable to any other manufacturer.

See above stats

No vehicle is perfect. I've had minor issues with our Tesla, but nothing that has interrupted the driving or taken the vehicles off the road. Our model 3 had a creaking top wishbone joint. Arrange via app, parts confirmed with service centre, done in an hour.

Definitely true, some people seem to forget that.