Are British Cycling & Sky being deliberately sexist?

[Mr Haematocrit]

How old is your step-daughter?
And - idly wondering - does her mother cycle at all?

Mother has no interest at all in going near a bike.
Step daughter is considered by all means an adult and this was partly the reasoning behind them not permitting me to come along. There was no question regarding why my support was needed/requested/desired.

Laura Trott, Joanna Rowsell, Dani King inspired her and got her interest going after the Olympics but the support and encouragement after did not build on this so the interest faded, very sad imho

 

[velovoice]

There are few things less edifying than the spectacle of white middle class men asserting their "right" to barge into the few social and cultural spaces that have been set up precisely to counteract their dominance of all the other ones. Surprise surprise, men demonstrate that their sense of entitlement extends not only to the events or spaces themselves, but to the discourses which construct them, and speak shamelessly of being disadvantaged due to their sex - which is the opposite of the truth. I should be amazed that people are able to type this stuff with a straight face, but one comes to anticipate the backlash against even very modest actions to promote equality.

I've not looked into this specific issue before, as I have an aversion to things connected with Sky, an affiliation with the CTC at the expense of British Cycling, and an entirely selfish preference for being surrounded by as many men as possible on group rides. Nor do I believe that there is anything called "female psychology" that accounts for how some women feel about their exclusion from some or all types of cycling. But it remains the case that, for many reasons, some women require this female-only space in order to overcome the barriers to their participation. I think there is something in the argument that the Breeze and Sky Rides are not parallel events in all senses, and I've nothing against a strategy of mobilizing volunteers. But then the branding, sub-branding and status attached to corporate sponsorship tends toward the baroque, at a glance it certainly looks as if organization and leadership of the Breeze rides is not taken as seriously as that of the Sky Rides - as something worth the organizer's remuneration. I don't see why getting more women cycling should not be approached within the same framework as other strategies to increase participation.

I agree with just about everything you've said there, TC. When I used the term "female psychology", I knew it was a bit of a cop-out, which I hoped would be forgiven, given the context and audience here! But I do think that women (many, if not all) have a tendency to take responsibility for the happiness/satisfaction of those around them, even if it involves blaming themselves. In the context of cycling, a number of women admit to thinking "everybody else would be having a better time if I wasn't holding them up" whenever they're struggling up hills. I'm not aware of this being a common thought pattern for men. Hence my use of "female psychology" as a kind of shorthand to distinguish between the way women and men view themselves when taking up a brand new activity in a mixed group. (cf post#16)

 

[velovoice]

Mother has no interest at all in going near a bike.
Step daughter is considered by all means an adult and this was partly the reasoning behind them not permitting me to come along. There was no question regarding why my support was needed/requested/desired.

Laura Trott, Joanna Rowsell, Dani King inspired her and got her interest going after the Olympics but the support and encouragement after did not build on this so the interest faded, very sad imho

That is really sad. Scope for exploring possible solutions, but this is not the thread. Do you want to start a new one asking for women's input on what might be helpful to your step-daughter?

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

Never thought of that, wonder why.
I might get her to start one to ensure her concerns are expressed correctly.

Thx for the suggestion.

 

[velovoice]

Never thought of that, wonder why.
I might get her to start one to ensure her concerns are expressed correctly.

Thx for the suggestion.

Any time. I hope she does. I'd be more than happy to listen to her and see how I can help, and I'm sure a lot of other women on CC would as well.

 

[StuAff]

Some of these arguments reminded me of a thread or two over on BR forums, particularly referring to the (paid) Cycletta events. Those strike me as a rather strange combination of Breeze-type social for ladies on the one hand, and sportive on the other, only the (not) freebies include a 'spa', feminine wipes in the goody bag, and they insist on calling feed stations 'treat stops'- some of the female contributors, including those who'd done them, felt that such elements were cringe-making if not downright patronising. Others disliked the whole idea of women-only rides. One, a friend of mine, said "by segregating women in any way, for harm or good, you're pushing back genuine equality". Another contributor I've met in the past said "Part of me thinks it's great - encouraging more people to take exercise is a good thing. And it's a safe, encouraging environment which might make people want to do it again. But similarly, I find all this girls-together stuff a bit patronising and annoying. We're just people" and "I think we need to encourage women to try cycling at normal events, rather than generate specific events for them. Evans sportives have a higher percentage of women and of beginner cyclists than sportives organised by road clubs, for example, partly because they strive to have courses at all levels and advertise to a wide section of the public. More of those kind of events, perhaps with the addition of some on traffic free roads, would attract all kinds of starting-out-cyclists, which I think is emphatically A Good Thing".

Certain posters in this thread might think those arguments reinforce their views against such events. I would disagree. Those two ladies I quoted are both experienced and strong riders with personalities to match. Faster than a lot of blokes on here for certain. But I doubt either of them would deny that there is a problem with many women feeling unable to ride events, or at all, for whatever reason. And I'm absolutely certain that they wouldn't want a man deciding that women-only events were wrong. If women don't want to ride in Breeze or Cycletta or AN Other ladies-only event, well that's a choice women should make. Not men........

 

[400bhp]

. In the context of cycling, a number of women admit to thinking "everybody else would be having a better time if I wasn't holding them up" whenever they're struggling up hills. I'm not aware of this being a common thought pattern for men.

I'm not sure I'd agree with that?

That has definately been me in the past.

There's a few of the blokes who I cycle with think the same too.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I purchased my step daughter a dogma think2 giro in nice girly pink and black (she picked it) to encourage her to keep fit and hopefully spend some quality time with me. She is not confident on the roads and found out about the local breeze ride however she does not want to turn up to meet a group of strangers alone and asks me to go along. I enquire about this and am prevented from doing so.
The step daughter is still not riding due to not wanting to ride with my friends and although cycling with other ladies appeals to her she does not wish to meet strangers alone and she would like me to go with her.

I would personally like to attend a breeze ride to encourage and support getting my step daughter to cycle and am prevented from doing so. This is a shame.

Sorry Mr. H, ime a cyclist at your level spending time riding with a family member complete beginner will only lead to a frustrating time for her and eventually for you.
The sentiments are good, in reality it will take some time until you can take your step daughter out on a ride you will both enjoy.
What about starting by getting to the breeze ride a bit earlier with her, take 15 minutes to have a chat with the participants and the leader, give her time to introduce herself, then wait for her at the end of the ride?
Us girls always have a wee natter before (and during ) a ride: must say it drives mad the man that sometimes leads us

 

[400bhp]

Those two ladies I quoted are both experienced and strong riders with personalities to match. Faster than a lot of blokes on here for certain.

Is that more "because of" rather than "in spite of" though?

 

[400bhp]

My OH went on her first club ride last week.

Manc Wheelers "women's only" ride.

She loved it and I can see it has inspired her to do more.

Nuff said - respect to Manchester Wheelers for doing such rides and a thank you to one person on here in particular.

 

[StuAff]

Is that more "because of" rather than "in spite of" though?

I can say with absolute certainty that I'd leave that to them to answer....

 

[zizou]

It does seem a bit unfair, but i think it is partly to do with funding and sponsorship - the relationship with Sky as a sponsor and British Cycling is a complicated one because they also sponsor Team Sky - there is obviously a crossover between Team Sky and British Cycling but it isnt that straightforward. I think with this Sky sponsor the Sky rides and that is how the ride leaders get paid, whereas Breeze is funded differently (although it is on the skyride website it doesnt seem to have the sky logo on the header)

The majority of people who contribute to cycling either through route planning and ride leading, widening access/ encouraging new riders, coaching, marshalling events etc do so outwith skyrides or breeze rides and they do so out their own pocket without getting paid for it or getting free kit and other perks. The benefits that Skyride leaders get (and to a lesser extent Breeze leaders too) is an anomaly and British Cycling should not IMO be involved with paying those who lead social rides unless they are being funded by a third party in some way.


On a related issue of women and cycling - At Go-Ride level there are alot of girls riding alongside the boys these days hopefully in a few years time when they become adults then this will carry through into cycling more generally.

 

[velovoice]

I'm not sure I'd agree with that?

That has definately been me in the past.

There's a few of the blokes who I cycle with think the same too.

I'm sure it's not gender-exclusive! I note that you and your mates didn't let those thoughts beat you.

For a lot of women, the negative thoughts win at a very early stage.

 

[400bhp]

I'm sure it's not gender-exclusive! I note that you and your mates didn't let those thoughts beat you.

For a lot of women, the negative thoughts win at a very early stage.

Well, it wasn't a binary cycle/don't cycle thing.

For me it was a "I don't want to hold up a certain club group ride so I won't go on it" (in fact now I'd more than hold my own) and just did my own thing. Even this weekends ride I went out on my own as I didn't want to hold any of my regular ride bussies up.

Perhaps it's a bit of an age thing with us, more mature and a bit more life experience. Might have been different at 18 years of age?

 

[GrumpyGregry]

But that's just a characteristic of people you don't like. It's not something that means you'll hate every man, because not every man has those characteristics. There's no guarantee you'll like every woman on a woman only ride, either.

It's not a characteristic of people I don't like. I like plenty of people despite those characteristics and a whole pile of other faults too.

At no point have I or anyone else said ALL men have those characteristics.

But to make out that amongst male cyclists these behaviours, particularly when directed to female riders, or others perceived as 'weaker', are as rare as hens teeth, is utterly disingenuous.