Are British Cycling & Sky being deliberately sexist?

[velovoice]

Jowwy, I think we all understood your explanation for your view. You're absolutely entitled to that view and I support your right to express it. But you still misunderstood the OP (written by... gulp.. a man!) and you've continued to misconstrue every further bit of, let's call it "clarification".

So no one had the guts to come right and use those words "Breeze rides shouldn't exist". But you and at least one other have made it clear that you believe that (a) Breeze Rides discriminate against men, and (b) That Is Wrong.

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discrimination

Oxford dictionary states discrimination is :-

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex:

I am prevented from signing up to a breeze ride at this time, not based upon my cycling ability or knowledge of the highway rules, or my cycle insurance, but because I am male. As such i am disadvantaged due to my sex. This from my understanding pretty much fits the dictionary description of discrimination.

 

[velovoice]

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discrimination

Oxford dictionary states discrimination is :-


I am prevented from signing up to a breeze ride at this time, not based upon my cycling ability or knowledge of the highway rules, or my cycle insurance, but because I am male. As such i am disadvantaged due to my sex. This from my understanding pretty much fits the dictionary description of discrimination.

Hmm, your definition of "disadvantaged" must be considerably different from mine.

My analogy above still stands. Why would a male want to join a ride specifically tailored to the psychological needs of females?

 

[400bhp]

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discrimination

Oxford dictionary states discrimination is :-

I am prevented from signing up to a breeze ride at this time, not based upon my cycling ability or knowledge of the highway rules, or my cycle insurance, but because I am male. As such i am disadvantaged due to my sex. This from my understanding pretty much fits the dictionary description of discrimination.

Careful sir, depends whether you believe it's unjust of prejudicial.

 

[jowwy]

Hmm, your definition of "disadvantaged" must be considerably different from mine.

My analogy above still stands. Why would a male want to join a ride specifically tailored to the psychological needs of females?

disadvantaged in the context its written by the fact he's male - and not disavantaged by his ability.

 

[velovoice]

disadvantaged in the context its written by the fact he's male - and not disavantaged by his ability.

But where's the disadvantage? He is spoiled for choice. In fact, I'd say he has every advantage. Whereas women, without something like Breeze, have none (in this context).

Are you saying men (because you do insist on making this all about gender) must have access to everything?

 

[srw]

The time when women-only events should stop is the time when everyone realises why they exist. Judging by this thread alone there's a very long way to go to get there.

 

[srw]

I'd say you're living in the past, in more ways than one. Look at post #22 about positive action.

It's quite simple - Sky and British Cycling are promoting 2 lots of similar rides under their collective banners - to run one version, they pay people a bit of cash for, to run the other one they don't, yet they expect the volunteer to do far more work for nothing.

As a subscriber to the cock-up theory of history, my best guess is that it's not deliberate sexism, but that someone just hasn't put two and two together. It's clearly sexist, and I suspect if it was pointed out to the right person the sexism would be excised.

 

[velovoice]

disadvantaged in the context its written by the fact he's male - and not disavantaged by his ability.

:lightbulb:

Oh you mean disadvantaged by the fact that he's not a woman!

(No offence intended to any biological males out there who are psychologically women and may thus be in need of something like Breeze.)

 

[velovoice]

As a subscriber to the cock-up theory of history, my best guess is that it's not deliberate sexism, but that someone just hasn't put two and two together. It's clearly sexist, and I suspect if it was pointed out to the right person the sexism would be excised.

That's exactly it.

It's akin to what in employment law is called "indirect discrimination". The policies appear equal and their effect is intended to be equal (or at least not deliberately unequal) but when applied to real people in real life situations, the end result is discrimination on the basis of some aspect that the policymakers hadn't envisaged. Rightly or wrongly. Deliberately or accidentally. Effect is the same = discrimination.

And in tribunal cases on discrimination, it's EFFECT that counts.

 

[totallyfixed]

I'm going to stick my oar in again, mostly because I have come across the attitude shown by some males on here many times. I would offer a wager that SKY/BC have no idea they are being discriminatory, it's just the way it has always been and until someone vociferously points it out "they" are usually simply not aware. In a way this is worse because it also implies a level of ignorance that in this day and age ought to be unacceptable. Unfortunately most things in life are run by men, and usually old ones at that many of whom still believe a woman's place is in the kitchen.

 

[velovoice]

Unfortunately most things in life are run by men, and usually old ones at that many of whom still believe a woman's place is in the kitchen.

Or "at home with the kids" (cf. post #14).

 

[Mr Haematocrit]

My analogy above still stands. Why would a male want to join a ride specifically tailored to the psychological needs of females?

I purchased my step daughter a dogma think2 giro in nice girly pink and black (she picked it) to encourage her to keep fit and hopefully spend some quality time with me. She is not confident on the roads and found out about the local breeze ride however she does not want to turn up to meet a group of strangers alone and asks me to go along. I enquire about this and am prevented from doing so.
The step daughter is still not riding due to not wanting to ride with my friends and although cycling with other ladies appeals to her she does not wish to meet strangers alone and she would like me to go with her.

I would personally like to attend a breeze ride to encourage and support getting my step daughter to cycle and am prevented from doing so. This is a shame.

 

[theclaud]

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/discrimination

Oxford dictionary states discrimination is :-


I am prevented from signing up to a breeze ride at this time, not based upon my cycling ability or knowledge of the highway rules, or my cycle insurance, but because I am male. As such i am disadvantaged due to my sex. This from my understanding pretty much fits the dictionary description of discrimination.

There are few things less edifying than the spectacle of white middle class men asserting their "right" to barge into the few social and cultural spaces that have been set up precisely to counteract their dominance of all the other ones. Surprise surprise, men demonstrate that their sense of entitlement extends not only to the events or spaces themselves, but to the discourses which construct them, and speak shamelessly of being disadvantaged due to their sex - which is the opposite of the truth. I should be amazed that people are able to type this stuff with a straight face, but one comes to anticipate the backlash against even very modest actions to promote equality.

I've not looked into this specific issue before, as I have an aversion to things connected with Sky, an affiliation with the CTC at the expense of British Cycling, and an entirely selfish preference for being surrounded by as many men as possible on group rides. Nor do I believe that there is anything called "female psychology" that accounts for how some women feel about their exclusion from some or all types of cycling. But it remains the case that, for many reasons, some women require this female-only space in order to overcome the barriers to their participation. I think there is something in the argument that the Breeze and Sky Rides are not parallel events in all senses, and I've nothing against a strategy of mobilizing volunteers. But then the branding, sub-branding and status attached to corporate sponsorship tends toward the baroque, at a glance it certainly looks as if organization and leadership of the Breeze rides is not taken as seriously as that of the Sky Rides - as something worth the organizer's remuneration. I don't see why getting more women cycling should not be approached within the same framework as other strategies to increase participation.

 

[velovoice]

I purchased my step daughter a dogma think2 giro in nice girly pink and black (she picked it) to encourage her to keep fit and hopefully spend some quality time with me. She is not confident on the roads and found out about the local breeze ride however she does not want to turn up to meet a group of strangers alone and asks me to go along. I enquire about this and am prevented from doing so.
The step daughter is still not riding due to not wanting to ride with my friends and although cycling with other ladies appeals to her she does not wish to meet strangers alone and she would like me to go with her.

I would personally like to attend a breeze ride to encourage and support getting my step daughter to cycle and am prevented from doing so. This is a shame.

How old is your step-daughter?
And - idle curiosity - does her mother cycle?

ETA:
Also - sounds like she wants two different things: quality time with you, and cycling with other women. She could have both (separately). Or if she doesn't want to meet strangers, she could choose one for the time being: riding with you. Over time, she'll probably meet a few other women cyclists and perhaps not feel so nervous about strangers?

Has she said why "cycling with other ladies appeals" to her? (I'll bet one reason is to make new friends! )

Topic for a new thread, I think.