Ambulance

[benb]

The design of the pinch point is the main culprit. Should be cycle friendly in design.

Well sort of. We all hate pinch points; they are unsatisfactory for everyone, but a driver who barges through regardless of the distance they are then able to give is a dangerous idiot.

 

[Turbo Rider]

Well sort of. We all hate pinch points; they are unsatisfactory for everyone, but a driver who barges through regardless of the distance they are then able to give is a dangerous idiot.

...I find them quite handy from a pedestrian point of view...argumentwise, I'm on the fence - experienced better, experienced worse & if it was too close by legal definition then it was too close...that's about it.

 

[Studley]

Well sort of. We all hate pinch points; they are unsatisfactory for everyone, but a driver who barges through regardless of the distance they are then able to give is a dangerous idiot.

More than sort of, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all if pinch points were designed to be cycle friendly. Yes, we may all hate them, apart from pedestrians, but that's no reason to accept them and continue complaining about them. We should be reporting the danger of pinch points to our council, not try to apportion blame on a cyclist or driver when both make errors of judgement in a given situation when we don't have the full story to make judgement on.

 

[benb]

...I find them quite handy from a pedestrian point of view...argumentwise, I'm on the fence - experienced better, experienced worse & if it was too close by legal definition then it was too close...that's about it.

As a pedestrian I'd much rather have a proper crossing; light controlled or zebra.

 

[Turbo Rider]

As a pedestrian I'd much rather have a proper crossing; light controlled or zebra.

I wouldn't. I find drivers and cyclists to be willfully ignorant of Zebra's, so its easy to get that false sense of security about them....the lights, I find annoying as I don't like waiting around for a light to come on, only for the traffic to dissappear, though I can obviously see their benefit to the rest of mankind. Each to his own though...

 

[GrasB]

Well sort of. We all hate pinch points; they are unsatisfactory for everyone, but a driver who barges through regardless of the distance they are then able to give is a dangerous idiot.

The pedestrian island I deal with in Italy are much nicer, but they also take up a lot more space as the road designers keep the lane width the same them & create a gap between the lanes to do this. It's not just a few meters in front, the blend can be over 30m in each direction. Shame we don't have as much thought put into these as can be found in continental Europe.

 

[gambatte]

Maybe, one problem with pedestrian islands is... they’re too small?
If a cyclist in a decent secondary can inadvertently allow a pass... maybe they need a smaller maximum lane width? Standard being a width that requires some level of driver attention to negotiate at 30mph with a clear road?
Increase the island, decrease the lane width.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Maybe, one problem with pedestrian islands is... they’re too small?
If a cyclist in a decent secondary can inadvertently allow a pass... maybe they need a smaller maximum lane width? Standard being a width that requires some level of driver attention to negotiate at 30mph with a clear road?
Increase the island, decrease the lane width.

But then the buses wouldn't fit through.

I see your point though.

 

[gambatte]

I reckon if it was wide enough for a bus/hgv then a cyclist in secondary would stop all but the most idiotic passes.
You’ll still get idiot drivers.
When I started (and inexperience found me cycling too close to the kerb) I was cycling along a local high street that’s largely pedestrianised. The bit where traffic’s allowed is a narrow, single lane, one way road with high kerbs.
I was passed at speed by an idiot in a Xantia estate.....

 

[CopperBrompton]

I reckon if it was wide enough for a bus/hgv then a cyclist in secondary would stop all but the most idiotic passes.

It would also mean that it would be much clearer to drivers why we've taken primary.

 

[GrasB]

A pass that barely misses a cyclist and/or barely misses a curb/traffic island is wrong, no matter what.

Especially when it's at speed.

 

[GrasB]

It would also mean that it would be much clearer to drivers why we've taken primary.

There are a few tighter pinch points I go through, these are generally the worst for drivers trying to dive in front of you because they realise that even if they 'push' you to the side there still isn't room!

The main problem is the effective lane width is reduced. A much better idea would be to maintain or even increase lane width to allow for a larger margin of error.

 

[CopperBrompton]

There are a few tighter pinch points I go through, these are generally the worst for drivers trying to dive in front of you because they realise that even if they 'push' you to the side there still isn't room!

Hmm, I find the opposite. With narrow pinch-points, I signal right and take primary beforehand, and it's then obvious why I've done it when I enter the point. Afterwards, I signal left and move back to secondary.

 

[gambatte]

The main problem is the effective lane width is reduced. A much better idea would be to maintain or even increase lane width to allow for a larger margin of error.

Most of these are fitted to existing roads? Increasing lane width would
1 increase the distance pedestrians have to cross
2 decrease the size of the ped island
Kind of defeats their purpose?
I’ve found the larger lane widths are the ones where I’ve had most ‘dodgy’ passes.
On narrower, busy roads, I’ve found by taking the lane early I’ve fewer problems. The only one I’ve had a couple of times has been the sudden screech and smell of burning rubber as a late passing idiot realises their current speed and direction is going to take them onto the island, through the bollard....

 

[GrasB]

Most of these are fitted to existing roads? Increasing lane width would
1 increase the distance pedestrians have to cross
2 decrease the size of the ped island
Kind of defeats their purpose?

1 is irrelevant as you still only have a single lane of traffic to cross.
2 isn't a consequence of increasing the lane width.

I’ve found the larger lane widths are the ones where I’ve had most ‘dodgy’ passes.
On narrower, busy roads, I’ve found by taking the lane early I’ve fewer problems. The only one I’ve had a couple of times has been the sudden screech and smell of burning rubber as a late passing idiot realises their current speed and direction is going to take them onto the island, through the bollard....

It's not when they screech to a halt that you have a problem, it's when they charge through the gap regardless! At this point the narrower the gap the more danger you're in as your options are reduced & the margin of error is much lower. If you hold a decent road position at wider pinch points most people are discouraged from doing silly things anyway.