2 more women die in London

[jonny jeez]

Safest way to be in London is assertive (bordering on aggressive),avoiding some of the awful and often lethal cycling infrastructure shitted on us and finally being able to stand your ground to the abuse you get for doing so. My guess is a difference in the willingness to do this between sexes.

I've held a personal theory on the higher proportion of female incidents for riders in heavy traffic.

As a chap I grew up in a world that required you to prove your male credentials, I was encouraged to be stupid (we could call it maverick), to find my own way, to be resourceful and sometimes to break the rules if it made sense to me. Being a dick was encouraged as it looked more "manly"...an example might be driving on the wrong side of the road around a blind country lane...to maintain speed and progress.

My wife was brought up In an opposite world of behaving, being good, adhering to the rules and being methodical.it was deemed wrong for her to think outside the box...almost ladylike or pushy.

As a result my wife wont break the rules, even if the rules look dodgy, she will, quite sensibly, just slow down on that country lane and put up with the tailgating chap in her rear view mirror.

Adhering to the rules whilst on a bike in traffic is a dangerous strategy. The rules take you up the left hand side of vehicles at junctions, suggest you should never take a primary position outside the cycle lane and follow the lane wherever it tells you to go.

I think the male ego is a real benefit in these environments and I encourage all riders, male or female, to understand that their own safety is the only rule worth following...at all times

 

[jonny jeez]

Safest way to be in London is assertive (bordering on aggressive),avoiding some of the awful and often lethal cycling infrastructure shitted on us and finally being able to stand your ground to the abuse you get for doing so. My guess is a difference in the willingness to do this between sexes.

I sort of agree but defiantly...totally disagree with the bordering comment.

For me its about assertiveness only but true assertiveness. Showing other road users that you know what's happening, how to deal with it and how to remain consistent....no surprises.

Being assertive and acting with grace, to let drivers know you have held them up (for a few seconds) and recognising their patience. Not thanking them for their help so much as their understanding.

 

[jonny jeez]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...in-whitechapel-dies-in-hospital-a3460426.html

Women die in London way out of proportion to the number on the roads. 2 more yesterday.

Liked for support.

Not because I like the message.

 

[Pale Rider]

You can cut this sexist crap out right now.

You might have a point if this data was consistent across the world or even the UK, but it's not. It's just London.

For example, across the UK in 2015 there were 100 cyclist deaths, 21 were woman. Pretty close to proportional to the number of riders, I'd guess.

You may not like the results of the research, but it was not sexist.

And rather like climate change, other research will no doubt contradict it.

It is a simple matter of fact there is a large disparity in the genders of cyclists killed in London.

Even more so when there are far more male cyclists, so in theory males should make up the majority of deaths.

I reckon bicycle use between the genders will be about the same, so it's not that women riders use more dangerous routes, or ride at more dangerous times, or ride many more miles.

Which leaves gender differences as a likely explanation.

 

[mjr]

The rules take you up the left hand side of vehicles at junctions,

how well the motoring lobby have convinced cyclists of this myth! I feel it's not so much that people overtake on the left but that motorists appear to act as if they can overtake through junctions (contrary to the highway code) with impunity. Maybe motorists think women are more likely to be bullied into stopping while they overtake dodgily or maybe that's enabled because women are more likely to follow mistaken paint which:

suggest you should never take a primary position outside the cycle lane and follow the lane wherever it tells you to go.

But I don't know the research evidence on how many men and women exit the cycle lanes at junctions like that on CS2.

 

[Blue Hills]

I sort of agree but defiantly...totally disagree with the bordering comment.

For me its about assertiveness only but true assertiveness. Showing other road users that you know what's happening, how to deal with it and how to remain consistent....no surprises.

Being assertive and acting with grace, to let drivers know you have held them up (for a few seconds) and recognising their patience. Not thanking them for their help so much as their understanding.

Agree. I always thank (usually a raised flat hand) drivers who hold back for me, or who show tolerance when I maybe do something i shouldn't, like ending up in the wrong lane and having to make a late correction.

 

[Blue Hills]

same thing as when we are accused of being 'aggressive'?

Being assertive, for either gender, has nothing to do with being aggressive. Very often the most aggressive people, male or female, are those who are anything but assertive but are weak - whether it's hidden or not. Assertive (in the best sense) people are far better to deal with, pedalling or not, than the unassertive.

 

[fossyant]

The simple fact is more women then men are proportionately being killed in traffic.

 

[vickster]

Maybe the individuals (in most cases men) driving the mostly large vehicles are impatient ignorant twunts and the women who have fallen under their wheels were simply extremely unlucky enough to have been in the very wrong place at the very wrong time when these twunts cocked up in their road positioning, awareness, driving style, whatever It's the drivers who are to blame not the female (or indeed male) victims

I certainly don't think my gender, size (I'm as big if not bigger than a lot of blokes) or spatial awareness (I was riding along in strong secondary, not squeezing through a gap or filtering) had anything to do with the fact I was knocked off for example

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

Maybe the individuals (in most cases men) driving the mostly large vehicles are impatient ignorant twunts and the women who have fallen under their wheels are simply unlucky enough to have been in the very wrong place at the very wrong time It's the drivers who are to blame not the female (or indeed male) victims

I certainly don't think my gender, size (I'm as big if not bigger than a lot of blokes) or spatial awareness (I was riding along in strong secondary, not squeezing through a gap or filtering) had anything to do with the fact I was knocked off for example

If you look at the gender of the killers in big vehicles, particularly construction industry drivers, we may as well ask ''Why do men kill women cyclists?'' It might even be a better question to ask than ''Why is a higher proportion of women cyclists being killed?''

 

[vickster]

[QUOTE 4672817, member: 9609"]Could it just be London because that is where cyclists are riding on extremely busy roads. I'm with the others who think women are just too timid for their own good in heavy traffic, need to be more aggressive, to stay safe in my opinion you have to be either have to be 'in the way' or completely out of the way of other traffic, many women are dreadful for keeping close to the gutter and giving drivers the opportunity to just squeese past. Ride in the middle of the lane and if they start to tailgate turn round and stare at the driver, and then move over to let them past when it is safe for them to do so.[/QUOTE]
What evidence do you have that this was the case with the woman killed by the coach in the OP? She may have been in primary, it appears that the coach driver still thought he could accelerate through a gap that wasn't there

I've had it, albeit with a car. In primary, going through a pinchpoint, idiot impatient bloke (for he was a he) thought he could squeeze through...the ped island had other thoughts and I had a wry smile as I heard the big bang and rattle rattle of him bursting at least one tyre and knackering at least one wheel

 

[PK99]

[QUOTE 4672817, member: 9609"]need to be more aggressive, .[/QUOTE]

ASSERTIVE not aggressive.

 

[Blue Hills]

ASSERTIVE not aggressive.

Yes, last thing we need in London is more aggressive twonk cyclists - for there are unfortunately a fair few. God help us if some of them transfer to cars.

 

[mjr]

[QUOTE 4672004, member: 9609"]In a thread where we are suggesting women are too timid and not assertive enough on the road, the woman that caused the crash in that vid was overly confident.[/QUOTE]
Indeed, and the fame of that vid of CS3 may have prompted "Another cyclist, who was coming from the other direction when the crash occurred" to suggest that maybe this woman had done a similar thing on CS2 and her "bike got clipped and then dragged out across the road."

Personally, I can't see how the bike would have ended up where it did then unless the coach was overtaking amazingly fast and close. The suggestion (by @subaqua and others) that she was in the narrow right-turn lane and the coach went for a gap that wasn't there seems much more likely.

 

[Deleted member 35268]

***** ******* Christ!!!!! Enough of this horrible stuff. RIP cyclists.