Zwift Chat

[<Tommy>]

Muc off 😁

Good seeing you this morning mate (Still not convinced that was Billy Connolly though!)

 

[<Tommy>]

Regarding the climbers gambit. I raced the course yesterday.

I think just generally is very tough to speculate on where your going to be able to rest, how tough the climb is, that kind of stuff. Because I personally think those things are dictated to you by the quality of the field you’re up against and we don’t know the strength of the field at this point really.

If you’re at the top of the w/kg for your respective category then it’s slightly easier to gage. But generally we’ll have a better idea how tough the competition is going to be once we’ve done a couple of races in the same division.

For what it’s worth I won the race I entered yesterday (yay me!…). I attacked the group at the bottom of the KOM and the bluff worked out. I kind of ran out of gas about 2/3rds of the way up but by that point I could just mirror the w/kg of the guys behind me as I had a healthy lead. If they’d of dug in at the start of the climb I might of been in a spot of bother.

Nice to see you in the race yesterday Alex. Showed a lot of heart at the end there mate 👍

 

[bobinski]

Good seeing you this morning mate (Still not convinced that was Billy Connolly though!)

Yeah, he lives in USA most of the year so probably a doppelgänger 😀

 

[alex_cycles]

Zwift Insider update on Category Enforcement.
Key Takeaways...

• It's generally regarded as a success
• It's still optional for race organisers but 46% of races within the next 7 days are using it
• Category boundaries have been increased by 5%, to make the difference between Zwiftpower and CE less apparent and confusing
• Use of CP rather than FTP should give a wider range rather than focussing on a single data point

Looks broadly promising (I think )

And one of the comments from James Bailey looks even more promising (results based categorisation is on the cards )...

 

[Peter Salt]

Zwift Insider update on Category Enforcement.
Key Takeaways...

• It's generally regarded as a success
• It's still optional for race organisers but 46% of races within the next 7 days are using it
• Category boundaries have been increased by 5%, to make the difference between Zwiftpower and CE less apparent and confusing
• Use of CP rather than FTP should give a wider range rather than focussing on a single data point

Looks broadly promising (I think )

And one of the comments from James Bailey looks even more promising (results based categorisation is on the cards )...
View attachment 659069

'Will be working on'... For the next 6 years

By the way, according to that cat enforcement I'm a B, because of the sprint presumably.

 

[alex_cycles]

'Will be working on'... For the next 6 years

Nobody said they'd do it Zwiftly

By the way, according to that cat enforcement I'm a B, because of the sprint presumably.

Maybe VO2max? I bet yours is well above 50.
If I do one of my 5-6 minute sprinty races on LaGuardia at 4.1 W/kg they'll dump me into B for Cat enforcement as it will push the VO2max value >50. I haven't done one of those in the last 60 days, so I'm still allowed to race in cat enforcement C but probably not for long. I'm actually hoping to get good enough to enjoy B one day

 

[Whorty]

'Will be working on'... For the next 6 years

By the way, according to that cat enforcement I'm a B, because of the sprint presumably.

Same here ... I was put in B the other day even though at that point I was only just managing mid C numbers ... so it's still not great. Sprints are 15 seconds, climbs considerably longer ... yet I'm a 'B' based on 15 seconds of a 60 minute ride

Would still make more sense to get to a points based system at some point as that would be harder/impossible to sandbag

 

[alex_cycles]

Same here ... I was put in B the other day even though at that point I was only just managing mid C numbers ... so it's still not great. Sprints are 15 seconds, climbs considerably longer ... yet I'm a 'B' based on 15 seconds of a 60 minute ride

Would still make more sense to get to a points based system at some point as that would be harder/impossible to sandbag

It isn’t based on sprints, it’s based on 2-50 minute power and VO2max. It’s all in the article I linked to.
If you’ve done a 5 minute effort on Zwift (excluding workouts) in the last 60 days over 4.1 W/kg it’ll likely be that.

 

[<Tommy>]

Same here ... I was put in B the other day even though at that point I was only just managing mid C numbers ... so it's still not great. Sprints are 15 seconds, climbs considerably longer ... yet I'm a 'B' based on 15 seconds of a 60 minute ride

Would still make more sense to get to a points based system at some point as that would be harder/impossible to sandbag

My understanding of the newer system is that it takes multiple stats into account rather than the old system that basically relies on just 95% of 20 minute w/kg. So that it then makes it a lot harder for people to rely on just staying within the 20 minute w/kg value to avoid promotion, and stops people from potentially game the system more easily.

I think if they can create a workable points system then hopefully that’s the ultimate solution. But the combination of newer system plus enforced boundaries still seems like a big improvement on the old system to me.

 

[Whorty]

It isn’t based on sprints, it’s based on 2-50 minute power and VO2max. It’s all in the article I linked to.
If you’ve done a 5 minute effort on Zwift (excluding workouts) in the last 60 days over 4.1 W/kg it’ll likely be that.

Nope, not managed that. My best in last 90 days is 3.7 wkg I've not hit 4.1 since May. I hit 4.3 back in Feb
So maybe it's looking further than 90 days back, or there is a bug? Coming back from injury I'm not back to B numbers yet

Actually, my sprint in races the last 90 days is on 5.6 too, so can't be that either ..... I did a group ride with big sprints but nothing in races yet

 

[Whorty]

My understanding of the newer system is that it takes multiple stats into account rather than the old system that basically relies on just 95% of 20 minute w/kg. So that it then makes it a lot harder for people to rely on just staying within the 20 minute w/kg value to avoid promotion, and stops people from potentially game the system more easily.

I think if they can create a workable points system then hopefully that’s the ultimate solution. But the combination of newer system plus enforced boundaries still seems like a big improvement on the old system to me.

In theory I'd agree, but I'm nowhere near B yet so it's still not working very well. Definitely need to stop sandbagging, we all agree on that .... too many people are able to win their cat races easily and yet stay in that cat .... in C there are riders who have won 10s of races, win every race they do, yet their wkg is spot on 3.19 ....

But at least Zwuft are trying something, which is all we have asked for 👍

 

[<Tommy>]

In theory I'd agree, but I'm nowhere near B yet so it's still not working very well.

Is it possible when you say you’re “nowhere near B”, you’re using the old measuring stick as your reference, as opposed to the new criteria used with more metrics?

To my mind the zwifter you describe above is you historically. And when you did moved up to B your numbers jumped above the threshold and you were relatively comfortable in B. Obviously after a lack of activity the last few months you might not be in that position now form wise. But generally I get the impression from what I’ve read that this is one of the reasons zwift is now attempting to broaden its use of metrics.

 

[berty bassett]

as it stands its a numbers game and some people use it as such to win races - hasn't it been known on here ?
until you get promoted for winning then it will always be the same
to some winning a virtual race by any means is the main attraction with fitness second
and each to their own
one things for sure , as it stands you have to play the game same as others if you are going to win
good luck all

 

[CXRAndy]

When do these extra measures come in?

 

[alex_cycles]

When do these extra measures come in?

The way I read it, they already have but don't apply to ZRL and only currently apply to 46% of races at the organiser's discretion