I think that was the identical course/race to the one I did in the morning. If it was like mine, the start was mental - mainly as all cats started together I think which distorts things towards helping the bigger/stronger B's I believe. Looks like we had similar times. Shame we weren't racing together in feltek or BC.
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I think that was the identical course/race to the one I did in the morning. If it was like mine, the start was mental - mainly as all cats started together I think which distorts things towards helping the bigger/stronger B's I believe. Looks like we had similar times. Shame we weren't racing together in feltek or BC.
Yeah - it does look like my race was an identical re-run of yours. It was totally mental at the start - despite starting near the front, when the countdown ended I just got totally swamped.
I think next week's feltek race is the crit, so should be similar to last nights races. It'd be good if we can both do that along with the other guys.
Ah yes, Downtown Dolphin - that is the one we both did recently but a few more laps. 6.15pm so a bit earlier.
Just been looking at my times last night and its a real eye opener for me.
I got caught/lapped by the group including Lars, Steen and Paul on my 6th lap of the Volcano CCW circuit (not including the start from the pens to the circuit). I managed to tag on to them and rode the whole 6th lap and stayed comfortably in the pack. I was clearly tired by then as I'd been riding solo with no drafting up to that point, so it seems fair to assume that had I been in the pack from the first lap I could probably have held my position all the way to the end.
My 6th lap time was 5.45 at 249w.
My other last times were 6.31, 6.33, 6.40, 6.41, 6.42, 6.43 with average watts all between 220 and 230.
If I assume I could have held an average of 5.45 for each lap (I think that's ok as early lap times were likely to be faster) then I lost 5.33 on the 6 solo laps.
My finishing time was 53.38. The 'lost time' would have improved my time to 48.05, which still would have seen me finish 84th rather than 90th, but actually only 11 seconds behind 73rd, which I'd have been quite happy with for a first outing in a really strong B field. I'd have finished 21st just ahead of Carl in the C race.
Actually, if I pushed it a bit further and assume as I said above that the previous 5 laps in the pack would have been faster than the 6th lap, let's say 10, 9, 8, 6, 4 and 2 seconds gain for the other 6 laps then that's another 39 seconds saved and a finishing time of 47.26. That sees me up to 73rd in B, but still 21st in C but now 2 minutes ahead of Carl.
So what that shows is the absolute importance of the start. I lost huge amounts of time and was completely out of the race by the turn to the volcano circuit, and even though I worked hard until the end (my lap time are pretty even) the lack of draft is a total killer.
I suppose we all know what I've just said, but I thought my figures from yesterday are a really good illustration.
Of course this may also show that I've just got too much time on my hands!
Now to work out how I improve my start!!
I got caught/lapped by the group including Lars, Steen and Paul on my 6th lap of the Volcano CCW circuit (not including the start from the pens to the circuit). I managed to tag on to them and rode the whole 6th lap and stayed comfortably in the pack. I was clearly tired by then as I'd been riding solo with no drafting up to that point, so it seems fair to assume that had I been in the pack from the first lap I could probably have held my position all the way to the end.
My 6th lap time was 5.45 at 249w.
My other last times were 6.31, 6.33, 6.40, 6.41, 6.42, 6.43 with average watts all between 220 and 230.
If I assume I could have held an average of 5.45 for each lap (I think that's ok as early lap times were likely to be faster) then I lost 5.33 on the 6 solo laps.
My finishing time was 53.38. The 'lost time' would have improved my time to 48.05, which still would have seen me finish 84th rather than 90th, but actually only 11 seconds behind 73rd, which I'd have been quite happy with for a first outing in a really strong B field. I'd have finished 21st just ahead of Carl in the C race.
Actually, if I pushed it a bit further and assume as I said above that the previous 5 laps in the pack would have been faster than the 6th lap, let's say 10, 9, 8, 6, 4 and 2 seconds gain for the other 6 laps then that's another 39 seconds saved and a finishing time of 47.26. That sees me up to 73rd in B, but still 21st in C but now 2 minutes ahead of Carl.
So what that shows is the absolute importance of the start. I lost huge amounts of time and was completely out of the race by the turn to the volcano circuit, and even though I worked hard until the end (my lap time are pretty even) the lack of draft is a total killer.
I suppose we all know what I've just said, but I thought my figures from yesterday are a really good illustration.
Of course this may also show that I've just got too much time on my hands!
Now to work out how I improve my start!!
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Michael finished 2 1/2 minutes ahead of me, so actually, had you been in C last night you'd almost certainly have stayed with the lead group too and been that far ahead of me.
Just shows though the leap from C to B
And also the advantage of being in a group at pace. This is why they need to sort out the sandbaggers .... having these aid the faster riders in a cat (B's helping the strong C's etc) makes it even harder to stick with the leaders. If the strong C's (for example) had to do their own pulling all the time, rather than have help from B's at the front, the dynamics of these races would change. Not sure how many A's were in B last night, but I'm guessing a handful.
steverob
Guru
- Location
- Buckinghamshire
What was interesting being in D where there were far fewer participants (only 24 took the start line and only 10 or so were really involved past the first lap) was being able to watch each individual rider a lot more easily and so being able to see who was actually taking part in the Series (and so knew the rules) and who had just decided to join a race for the hell of it.
Every sprint point was contended for by the same two or three riders out of the leading pack - I tried to either keep up with them or launch my attack beforehand (my 5 second power was massively lower than theirs, but my 15 second wasn't too far off) but apart from the one lap that I won, they normally just edged me out. Trouble is that meant even though I finished 3rd or 4th out of the 8-10 riders in our pack, I knew that the ones ahead of me were going for points and wouldn't be DQ'd or not on ZwiftPower, whereas the ones behind me probably wouldn't be registered, so I hadn't actually gained any points by trying a sprint compared to not bothering and just staying with the pack of non-registered riders.
Then post-sprint, you'd notice that the sprinters would all slow down to 1.5-1.7 w/kg until you at least reached the Volcano glass bridge turn off. Partially to recover, partially to let the main group catch back up to them and no doubt also to ensure that their averages dropped back below the 2.5 w/kg level (consider we were doing 75% of the lap at pretty much dead on 2.5, the sprint at anywhere between 4 and 6, so the remainder needed to be way under the limit). Those not sprinting must have wondered what was going on - why did these guys fly off every lap and gap the pack by 10 seconds, then just give up that lead to allow the pack to reform?
Of course, this is what caught me out on the final lap. On all previous laps, I had to put out a strong effort up the last climb (normally 3.2 would do) to stay at the front, but then it calmed down for a few seconds as the actual sprint itself wouldn't kick off until we were much nearer the line. This time however ALL the riders, including the non-sprinters were going for a stage win, so they went early and kicked at 3.7 on that climb (ironically the sprinters were probably less interested as 1st was only worth 6 points with such a small field, whereas each sprint was 5, so a total of 30pts had already come and gone). I noticed a second too late, then got stuck on the wheel of someone we'd literally just lapped and I found myself gapped by 3 seconds and growing. Put in a token effort, but ended up just cruising over the line as I knew even if I had caught someone, it probably would have been a non-registered rider anyway, so wouldn't have made a difference to the results.
Every sprint point was contended for by the same two or three riders out of the leading pack - I tried to either keep up with them or launch my attack beforehand (my 5 second power was massively lower than theirs, but my 15 second wasn't too far off) but apart from the one lap that I won, they normally just edged me out. Trouble is that meant even though I finished 3rd or 4th out of the 8-10 riders in our pack, I knew that the ones ahead of me were going for points and wouldn't be DQ'd or not on ZwiftPower, whereas the ones behind me probably wouldn't be registered, so I hadn't actually gained any points by trying a sprint compared to not bothering and just staying with the pack of non-registered riders.
Then post-sprint, you'd notice that the sprinters would all slow down to 1.5-1.7 w/kg until you at least reached the Volcano glass bridge turn off. Partially to recover, partially to let the main group catch back up to them and no doubt also to ensure that their averages dropped back below the 2.5 w/kg level (consider we were doing 75% of the lap at pretty much dead on 2.5, the sprint at anywhere between 4 and 6, so the remainder needed to be way under the limit). Those not sprinting must have wondered what was going on - why did these guys fly off every lap and gap the pack by 10 seconds, then just give up that lead to allow the pack to reform?
Of course, this is what caught me out on the final lap. On all previous laps, I had to put out a strong effort up the last climb (normally 3.2 would do) to stay at the front, but then it calmed down for a few seconds as the actual sprint itself wouldn't kick off until we were much nearer the line. This time however ALL the riders, including the non-sprinters were going for a stage win, so they went early and kicked at 3.7 on that climb (ironically the sprinters were probably less interested as 1st was only worth 6 points with such a small field, whereas each sprint was 5, so a total of 30pts had already come and gone). I noticed a second too late, then got stuck on the wheel of someone we'd literally just lapped and I found myself gapped by 3 seconds and growing. Put in a token effort, but ended up just cruising over the line as I knew even if I had caught someone, it probably would have been a non-registered rider anyway, so wouldn't have made a difference to the results.
Interesting analysis Del but I think you are missing one logic step. Improving your start will come at a cost. For instance, yesterday I averaged 327W for 2 minutes at the start - and was still in 100th place of 344 riders (all cats). I then had to drop into just above threshold to stay with my group. In other words, the harder you go at the start, the less you have for the rest of the race and it becomes a balance.
I'd suggest if you practice harder starts, you add on some hard VO2 followed by some immediate threshold - if you want to simulate racing.
Anyway, great going getting to B - and you'll just get stronger
mjd1988
Guru
The guys who are winning these races, pushing out monster 300+ watts for the race duration, just blow me apart. Even though we are pushing similar w/kg, these massive watts are impossible for lighter riders to cope with (me anyway!). Only 1 rider in the top 20 is lighter than meWe need some hilly stages
Sort out these fatties
Thing is the people who win the sprints also won the hilly stages!
That is what I am massively lacking currently, VO2 max with quick recovery to threshold
It can be extremely taxing on the body to train for these type of exertions, vomit inducing
Unfortunately its the only way to cope with threshold and above efforts
I dont currently have the desire to turn myself inside out to achieve peak performance- must be getting old😠.
Lazy touring sounds a lot more appealing
It can be extremely taxing on the body to train for these type of exertions, vomit inducing
Unfortunately its the only way to cope with threshold and above efforts
I dont currently have the desire to turn myself inside out to achieve peak performance- must be getting old😠.
Lazy touring sounds a lot more appealing
Nah ...we needproper hills, up the KoM. These riders can sprint up the little hills we've had so far as none have been more than a few minutes, then they sit in with the B's who drag them along to recover.
Maybe a race up the Alpe will put these 100kg guys to the sword
<Tommy>
Illegitimi non carborundum
- Location
- Camden, London
Pro tip: Talking is no substitute for actualy training. (You’re welcome 😁)
CC Danish league updated.
Looked to be some notable achievements last night. Big kudos to Lars who bagged his first max points of the campaign and Michael, who was only just down on the time's of the B's
Well done Steve on getting some CC points on the board in D cat
Looked to be some notable achievements last night. Big kudos to Lars who bagged his first max points of the campaign and Michael, who was only just down on the time's of the B's
Well done Steve on getting some CC points on the board in D cat
Are you sure the heat map isn't showing the location of virus infected ridersStrava mobile premium has route planning using heatmaps.
You can arrive in a unfamiliar area, choose what type of route(hilly,flat mixed), distance and Strava will plot you 3 routes to ride from commonly used Strava users
Nice update
