Zwift Chat

[bobinski]

I also took from this the 'possibility' to cheat on Zwift (bare with me here ....... )

Let's assume, hypothetically, that there is a rider who is 74kg and is currently C cat pushing out ave 235 watts in races (3.18 w/kg) and an FTP of 245. Now let's assume this hypothetical rider is working to get stronger and improve his power. He (or she ) knows that a small power increase will push them into B class where they will end up at the back of every race, rather than where they are currently towards the front of C races.

With this information, what this rider could do now is, every time they have a power increase, they could raise (dope) their weight on Zwift. This would not only help the rider stay within C limits, but it would also make him (or her) a faster rider in Zwift C class races.

This cheat would only work for those riders at the top of D, C or B cats, to keep them in the lower cat and be more competitive in that cat.

Interesting, yes?

what has this place turned into? Cheats corner 🤔😁

( goes off to report Whorty to ZP😉)

 

[Whorty]

what has this place turned into? Cheats corner 🤔😁

( goes off to report Whorty to ZP😉)

Someone's jealous of my Mars bar stash (that's Mars bar flavoured popcorn )

 

[berty bassett]

Doctoring figures to alter results 🤔 sure this has been talked about before

 

[Del C]

Yes it does but that’s a separate point. We already know that it takes light riders less effort to go uphill.

The point that I found interesting was that when two riders going uphill with different weights but with the same w/kg, the heavier rider will be going faster.

As a side point saying light riders have an advantage over heavy riders is a little simplistic. It’s like saying powerful riders have an advantage over less powerful riders. Neither statement can be used in isolation from the other to determine who is going to be quickest.

I agree with that, but I found the basic data a bit meaningless because it didn't seem to focus on any clear conclusions or try to compare these to real life examples.

What I'm saying is that in my mind the data sort of confirms what we know from real life. So, you won't win a Grand Tour if you're a fat bastard (this may not be the right technical term) because you'll need get over the big climbs. But you may be excellent in the Classics where your power gets you over the short punchy climbs and you can hold that power on the flats. Guys like Cancellara, Boonen, Hushovd and Backstedt underline that point (ok they're relative fat bastards compared to Froome, Thomas, Quintana, etc).

For me, that sort of conclusion was what was lacking from the write up. Normally I like Zwift Insiders analysis, but I just felt it pulled up a bit short this time.

 

[<Tommy>]

I agree with that, but I found the basic data a bit meaningless because it didn't seem to focus on any clear conclusions or try to compare these to real life examples.

What I'm saying is that in my mind the data sort of confirms what we know from real life. So, you won't win a Grand Tour if you're a fat bastard (this may not be the right technical term) because you'll need get over the big climbs. But you may be excellent in the Classics where your power gets you over the short punchy climbs and you can hold that power on the flats. Guys like Cancellara, Boonen, Hushovd and Backstedt underline that point (ok they're relative fat bastards compared to Froome, Thomas, Quintana, etc).

For me, that sort of conclusion was what was lacking from the write up. Normally I like Zwift Insiders analysis, but I just felt it pulled up a bit short this time.

It is slightly different to real life Del and I think that is the point they’re making. Because what they’re saying is in zwift they take the bike weight into consideration. And that allows for the marginal difference in speed between different riders at the same w/kg.

I know what you’re saying. It’s not life changing information. But it is new information.

edit: it’s this section that I found interesting.


“But why is it that when two riders are holding the same w/kg, the heavier rider will always be faster? There are multiple reasons, actually–but one big reason is what we’ll call “true w/kg”–that is, including the weight of the bike in our w/kg number.

Suppose we have two riders, 100kg and 50kg, both riding at 3w/kg. But let’s say they’re on 9kg bikes. If you add that bike weight to the rider’s weight and calculate the true w/kg, you get this:

• 100kg rider + 9kg bike @ 300 watts = 2.75w/kg
• 50kg rider + 9kg bike @150 watts = 2.54w/kg

So even though both riders are holding 3w/kg, the heavier rider is holding a higher true w/kg.

Another reason heavier riders go faster is that, unless you’re climbing straight up (which is impossible), your effort isn’t only lifting you up the hill–it’s also driving you forward by overcoming the forces of air and rolling resistance. Heavier riders are putting out more pure watts than lighter riders, meaning (in simple terms) there are more watts available to overcome air and rolling resistance after the lifting is done”

 

[<Tommy>]

Doctoring figures to alter results 🤔 sure this has been talked about before

yes but not this week!

 

[Whorty]

How many people here are using protein shake , I have one after every ride or weight training session, I was using Optimum Nutrition 100% gold whey but it was getting a little pricey so have swapped to Bulk powders 100% pure whey 90 a little cheaper for and now in 2.5kg package

When I used to body build, donkey's years ago, I took various things, but now, nothing. I might drink some milk after a ride, but nothing more.

 

[Whorty]

I don’t think adding weight to stay in a particular race category is a new phenomenon to be fair. But if you can combine it with a way of justifiably eating more chocolate then I don’t see a negative!

No, I think you're right, but interesting to see the numbers written down to back up the theory.

Ooo, just found some cookies and cream hagan das in the freezer ... yum yum

 

[Del C]

It is slightly different to real life Del and I think that is the point they’re making. Because what they’re saying is in zwift they take the bike weight into consideration. And that allows for the marginal difference in speed between different riders at the same w/kg.

I know what you’re saying. It’s not life changing information. But it is new information.

edit: it’s this section that I found interesting.


“But why is it that when two riders are holding the same w/kg, the heavier rider will always be faster? There are multiple reasons, actually–but one big reason is what we’ll call “true w/kg”–that is, including the weight of the bike in our w/kg number.

Suppose we have two riders, 100kg and 50kg, both riding at 3w/kg. But let’s say they’re on 9kg bikes. If you add that bike weight to the rider’s weight and calculate the true w/kg, you get this:

• 100kg rider + 9kg bike @ 300 watts = 2.75w/kg
• 50kg rider + 9kg bike @150 watts = 2.54w/kg

So even though both riders are holding 3w/kg, the heavier rider is holding a higher true w/kg.

Another reason heavier riders go faster is that, unless you’re climbing straight up (which is impossible), your effort isn’t only lifting you up the hill–it’s also driving you forward by overcoming the forces of air and rolling resistance. Heavier riders are putting out more pure watts than lighter riders, meaning (in simple terms) there are more watts available to overcome air and rolling resistance after the lifting is done”

Ah I think I'd lost the will to live by the time I got there!

I started thinking I can't remember if its watts or watts/kg that drives you uphill and thought this is doing my head in............. and sadly I'm an engineer so I should love this!

 

[<Tommy>]

Ah I think I'd lost the will to live by the time I got there!

😁

To be fair I only read the first bit and the conclusion. It’s the exact same strategy I use when people give me things to read at work. To this day they’ve never managed to pin a fatality on me. and on average it saves me 2 hours a day to post crap on here and generally stare into space

 

[CXRAndy]

Back in Zwift land this morning.Hooray

This is the first time without something being obviously wrong. My turbo wouldn't offer much resistance. I was on the 53*11 gearing doing high 90s cadence only producing 120-150 Watts.
I could hit decent power in climbs but again with very big gearing.

No other programs were running-checked on task manager.

I powered down turbo and checked settings on Zwift (nothing wrong)

Anyone had similar recent experience of low resistance?

Turbo is Tacx Neo2

 

[Freelanderuk]

Back in Zwift land this morning.Hooray

This is the first time without something being obviously wrong. My turbo wouldn't offer much resistance. I was on the 53*11 gearing doing high 90s cadence only producing 120-150 Watts.
I could hit decent power in climbs but again with very big gearing.

No other programs were running-checked on task manager.

I powered down turbo and checked settings on Zwift (nothing wrong)

Anyone had similar recent experience of low resistance?

Turbo is Tacx Neo2

Had nothing like that at all Andy, have a quick look on the Facebook page and see if there is any reset process

 

[CXRAndy]

Had nothing like that at all Andy, have a quick look on the Facebook page and see if there is any reset process

Will do.

The only thing I changed before going away was I installed Tacx desktop app. Like I mentioned according to PC task manager, no other programs associated with the turbo were running in the background

Edit, seems it might be Zwift needs to be uninstalled and reinstalled. I'll try again later today before riding again.

 

[Freelanderuk]

Will do.

The only thing I changed before going away was I installed Tacx desktop app. Like I mentioned according to PC task manager, no other programs associated with the turbo were running in the background

Apparently there was problems with logging in to Zwift last night, maybe the problem is on Zwift

 

[Whorty]

Back in Zwift land this morning.Hooray

This is the first time without something being obviously wrong. My turbo wouldn't offer much resistance. I was on the 53*11 gearing doing high 90s cadence only producing 120-150 Watts.
I could hit decent power in climbs but again with very big gearing.

No other programs were running-checked on task manager.

I powered down turbo and checked settings on Zwift (nothing wrong)

Anyone had similar recent experience of low resistance?

Turbo is Tacx Neo2

I connected my Element Bolt to the Tacx recently to see if I could use that to measure average watts on a ride, and that buggered up the power on Zwift. Apart from that, I've never had this on my NEO2, although my Bkool had this a few times - usually when I switched between Zwift and BSIM - a reboot of the trainer normally fixed it on the Pro.