Yates and De Jongh also booted from SKY

[Hotblack Desiato]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion and to express it as forcefully as you wish. That is your priviledge. Doubtless others may share your strong feelings, others may not.
My shoulders are metaphorically broad, and tempered by experience, so fire away, no worries.

He's not really getting at you oldroadman. And I still don't understand the post of yours that I quoted earlier.

i.e.

I don't really get what you are saying blah blah

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Some might, then others might think about the numbers of "old boys" who came from an era when nobody even thought about testing, and lived to a ripe old age. Nothing is certain, except the quote I once heard "There is a simple answer to every problem, which is usually wrong".
All sorts of things play into the health question, genetics being one, how well you treated your body when young (exercise, lifestyle), and how you looked after yourself when older, how happy you were, how much mental stress, it goes on and on. I don't defend the PED use, but it's not the be all and end all of wht happens in later life.
In my own case despite not turning a pedal in anger for years, I'm lucky to have a low pulse rate (upper 40's low 50's), low blood pressure, heamatocrit around the high 40's, excellent lung function. Am I fit? I don't think so! Then my genetics suggest a life span around 80+ years, and some of those "old boys" who "prepared" themselves with all kinds of exotic cocktails (documented in historical writings), lived into their 90's, others passed on in the 60's and 70's. The genetic roulette wheel has much to answer for.

A now-banned drug in a sports nutrition supplement was a factor in the death of a runner during the London Marathon, a coroner has ruled.

She had taken a supplement containing DMAA which, on the balance of probabilities, in combination with extreme physical exertion, caused acute cardiac failure, which resulted in her death.
"My hope is that the coverage of this case and the events leading up to Claire's death will help publicise the potentially harmful effects of DMAA during extreme exertion.

Very sad.

 

[resal]

Well, you are entitled to your opinion and to express it as forcefully as you wish. That is your priviledge. Doubtless others may share your strong feelings, others may not.
My shoulders are metaphorically broad, and tempered by experience, so fire away, no worries.

I am curiously disturbed by your response. Broad shoulders tempered by experience ?

You have indicated by your comment that you consider Yates, and other people, who make living out of cycling are entitled to lie,cheat and steal from others is acceptable, because otherwise they might have to work in a factory.

Obviously during your period of being "tempered by experience" you were not exposed personally to years of honest endeavor in such an organisation, otherwise you would not realise quite how bigoted and ignorant your comment was.

"Broad Shoulders" ? I don't want support. I don't want anything from you. If you can condone taking another's livelihood by deception, by such ridiculous motives, I doubt that anything I write will enter your closed mind. At best I will make you aware that other humans have a different perspective.

Yates was part of a criminal gang every bit as much as the Great Train Robbers were. Please, spare me the "he claims he was only a driver and the thought never crossed his mind that Lance's performances, beating all those nasty drug cheats, was down to anything other than orange juice and apple pie, and then the - Yates never tested positive, that boy is innocent ....". After all neither did Rasmussen or closer to home, just like Yates, neither did Lance - officially.

Only two things justify employing Yates (or de Jongh) into a clean Sky team. Either the person who approved these appointments was a moron or was deliberately deceptive. In Brailsford's case it was not the first, but then, was his the final say ? Did he pass the decision to the Board of team Sky ?

 

[ufkacbln]

This isnt confined to the sport of road cycling, its in every walk of life throughout history. Cheat, lie and steal and be better off or don't and just take another path. Personally I've turned down the lucrative hand-shake and got the sack, so that's my context. I didnt starve and fed the mouths. There's always someone in a better situation with a better future, but the converse is true too.

So yep, I'm quite happy to condemn. Justifiably. They knew the rules as we all do about our walks of life and whether posters here aren't out of school (Tom Simpson died before I was born) makes not a huge amount of difference. Like Dell I think it is just really sad, even LA.

This thing about dope or you're out - well Bassons called their bluff and he didnt get sacked for not doping. So its hard to say where the boundaries and reasons really are.

Simpson is the classic hypocritical aspect of this ..... Try posting that he was A proven cheat and should be expunged from the history of. British Cycling and see the response..

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Tom Simpson however was a very different character from Lance Armstrong. And he demonstrated the price of PEDs by losing his life.

 

[resal]

How does Cav cheat?
.

I did not answer that - sorry - Cav - it was the Commonwealth Games. Ryan Giggs never gets to go the World Cup because he plays for Wales. Born in a minor competing nation, has its advantages and disadvantages, however it is a fact of life and should not be difficult to come to terms with. After all where does the CG come for someone like Cav ? He (IoM) and Hayles(England) colluded to falsify the result, instead of riding to represent their own teams, Hayles rode for Cav. It was so blatant that Hayles was disqualified. The rules state, you have to ride for your own nation and cannot form combines. However, it was an act by the commissaires that was typical of our sport. They disqualified the guy who did not get on the podium but left the recipient of the foul play in place as winner ! If you made it up, no-one would believe you. In respect of Cav, of itself it is a modest deal, he has not been caught with more EPO in his van than his dog/horse/wife/aged mother (insert random person/creature that could be injected) needs, but in terms of what it tells you about attitudes to rules, by all parties, it forms a most prescient witness.

Why have you lost faith with Brad?
.

I used to really like some of the things he came out with. But both the music and words have changed and the chart tracking that trend exactly matches the one documenting his rise from the relative obscurity/little pond of track cycling to road superstar. I could dismiss all of my worries about that if I could believe Sky and the Brailsford/Sutton axis, but I can't. My first uhh ohh moment came when I learned they had hired Barry. The other signings of Yates etc, were just more indicators that the rhetoric and the actions were diametrically opposed. The most recent was the way the Yates story played out in the Daily Telegraph on that Sunday before Christmas. That Gallagher and a National Paper went from front cover, shock-horror exclusive, to Sky sock puppet in less than 18 hours - on a Sunday - screamed only one thing.

Edit - added later - sorry that last part does sound like conspiracy theory rubbish from the clinic - but why did Sky have to pull the stunt like that - just come out and tell us the truth.

 

[rich p]

I did not answer that - sorry - Cav - it was the Commonwealth Games. Ryan Giggs never gets to go the World Cup because he plays for Wales. Born in a minor competing nation, has its advantages and disadvantages, however it is a fact of life and should not be difficult to come to terms with. After all where does the CG come for someone like Cav ? He (IoM) and Hayles(England) colluded to falsify the result, instead of riding to represent their own teams, Hayles rode for Cav. It was so blatant that Hayles was disqualified. The rules state, you have to ride for your own nation and cannot form combines. However, it was an act by the commissaires that was typical of our sport. They disqualified the guy who did not get on the podium but left the recipient of the foul play in place as winner ! If you made it up, no-one would believe you. In respect of Cav, of itself it is a modest deal, he has not been caught with more EPO in his van than his dog/horse/wife/aged mother (insert random person/creature that could be injected) needs, but in terms of what it tells you about attitudes to rules, by all parties, it forms a most prescient witness.


I used to really like some of the things he came out with. But both the music and words have changed and the chart tracking that trend exactly matches the one documenting his rise from the relative obscurity/little pond of track cycling to road superstar. I could dismiss all of my worries about that if I could believe Sky and the Brailsford/Sutton axis, but I can't. My first uhh ohh moment came when I learned they had hired Barry. The other signings of Yates etc, were just more indicators that the rhetoric and the actions were diametrically opposed. The most recent was the way the Yates story played out in the Daily Telegraph on that Sunday before Christmas. That Gallagher and a National Paper went from front cover, shock-horror exclusive, to Sky sock puppet in less than 18 hours - on a Sunday - screamed only one thing.

Edit - added later - sorry that last part does sound like conspiracy theory rubbish from the clinic - but why did Sky have to pull the stunt like that - just come out and tell us the truth.

More tosh I'm afraid.
So Cav is in your black book because his mate Hayles led him out in a track sprint? Good gawd.
You should read Wiggins latest autobiog. (pp 174 - 190 in particular) for the most forthright condemnation of drugs in cycling, Armstrong and his downfall that I've seen from any cyclist.