Yates and De Jongh also booted from SKY

[thom]

A Telegraph article on Yates' departure - consistent with what @oldroadman said.
Certainly the timing is inconvenient for this reason but you can imagine that whether anything happened in his past or not regarding doping, the increased personal scrutiny on him due to his Motoman association in USADA's report would have exacerbated these health issues.

 

[oldroadman]

How quick are the majority of posters to condemn, when we are talking about history which happened before some were even out of school, in what was a very different world. People had mouths to feed, no excuse I know, but often the team domestique rider (average pro career maybe 4 years) needed to make what he/she could to try and secure a better future than a job in a factory.
That said, no excuses, but some context is needed, and not everyone had the sophisticated set up that LA had, looking at the reports. Even the "great campaigner" Kimmage would not get a job at Sky, a couple of admitted jabs and he is a doper by his own admission. A difficult task to square the circle.

 

[dellzeqq]

Oldroadman has a point. This is, first and foremost, a sad thing. Sad for the riders who missed out because of the dopers. Sad for the dopers who went on an adventure, compromised themselves in pursuit of results and a career and now find themselves despised. Sad for the next generation who will work in the shadow of the past.

 

[thom]

de Jongh talks about his EPO use

Edit:
A couple of thoughts on Yates by David Walsh:
Yates is a good guy, modest and always prepared to help others. "There are givers and takers," dad Roger once said, "and Sean is a giver."
I liked the Yates I knew while recognising that with him the law of silence was safe. If ever a man loved a sport too much, it was Sean.

 

[Marshmallow_Fluff]

How quick are the majority of posters to condemn, when we are talking about history which happened before some were even out of school, in what was a very different world. People had mouths to feed, no excuse I know, but often the team domestique rider (average pro career maybe 4 years) needed to make what he/she could to try and secure a better future than a job in a factory.
That said, no excuses, but some context is needed, and not everyone had the sophisticated set up that LA had, looking at the reports. Even the "great campaigner" Kimmage would not get a job at Sky, a couple of admitted jabs and he is a doper by his own admission. A difficult task to square the circle.

I know it sounds idiotic and possibly it is, but there was a dark era in every sport when actually dopping was -if not common practice- a very casual thing to do! To say nothing about the fact that if you were no "in" you were out of the door.. Not that it justifies anything, but just saying..

 

[Orbytal]

@Marshmallow Fluff it may be that Football will have its time coming soon as well with the Peurto and Galgo coming up.

 

[DogTired]

How quick are the majority of posters to condemn, when we are talking about history which happened before some were even out of school, in what was a very different world. People had mouths to feed, no excuse I know, but often the team domestique rider (average pro career maybe 4 years) needed to make what he/she could to try and secure a better future than a job in a factory.
That said, no excuses, but some context is needed, and not everyone had the sophisticated set up that LA had, looking at the reports. Even the "great campaigner" Kimmage would not get a job at Sky, a couple of admitted jabs and he is a doper by his own admission. A difficult task to square the circle.

This isnt confined to the sport of road cycling, its in every walk of life throughout history. Cheat, lie and steal and be better off or don't and just take another path. Personally I've turned down the lucrative hand-shake and got the sack, so that's my context. I didnt starve and fed the mouths. There's always someone in a better situation with a better future, but the converse is true too.

So yep, I'm quite happy to condemn. Justifiably. They knew the rules as we all do about our walks of life and whether posters here aren't out of school (Tom Simpson died before I was born) makes not a huge amount of difference. Like Dell I think it is just really sad, even LA.

This thing about dope or you're out - well Bassons called their bluff and he didnt get sacked for not doping. So its hard to say where the boundaries and reasons really are.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

De Jongh talks about his doping experience here.

 

[DogTired]

De Jongh talks about his doping experience here.

Thanks for the link - thats a real candid admission.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

So apparently according to the official SKY press release, Yates has NOT confessed to anything, but has retired altogether. Omerta still strong with that one.

Well obviously he is awaiting his invite onto the Oprah show.

He has had a lot of health problems, including a heart scare, and his odd speech may indicate a slight hangover from that, a TIA, or even a slight stroke. All good reasons to stop the stressful life of a DS with all the time away and travelling involved. Except unless he has assembled a good wad of cash, the next task will be finding something to bring in some money, never an easy thing in your 40's with your only real experience in the bike game. Back to garden work, maybe? All a bit unfortunate for a decent enough bloke.

Some might say that health problems are part of the PED scene. Some might, I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[oldroadman]

Well obviously he is awaiting his invite onto the Oprah show.



Some might say that health problems are part of the PED scene. Some might, I couldn't possibly comment.

Some might, then others might think about the numbers of "old boys" who came from an era when nobody even thought about testing, and lived to a ripe old age. Nothing is certain, except the quote I once heard "There is a simple answer to every problem, which is usually wrong".
All sorts of things play into the health question, genetics being one, how well you treated your body when young (exercise, lifestyle), and how you looked after yourself when older, how happy you were, how much mental stress, it goes on and on. I don't defend the PED use, but it's not the be all and end all of wht happens in later life.
In my own case despite not turning a pedal in anger for years, I'm lucky to have a low pulse rate (upper 40's low 50's), low blood pressure, heamatocrit around the high 40's, excellent lung function. Am I fit? I don't think so! Then my genetics suggest a life span around 80+ years, and some of those "old boys" who "prepared" themselves with all kinds of exotic cocktails (documented in historical writings), lived into their 90's, others passed on in the 60's and 70's. The genetic roulette wheel has much to answer for.

 

[Hotblack Desiato]

Some might, then others might think about the numbers of "old boys" who came from an era when nobody even thought about testing, and lived to a ripe old age. Nothing is certain, except the quote I once heard "There is a simple answer to every problem, which is usually wrong".
All sorts of things play into the health question, genetics being one, how well you treated your body when young (exercise, lifestyle), and how you looked after yourself when older, how happy you were, how much mental stress, it goes on and on. I don't defend the PED use, but it's not the be all and end all of wht happens in later life.
In my own case despite not turning a pedal in anger for years, I'm lucky to have a low pulse rate (upper 40's low 50's), low blood pressure, heamatocrit around the high 40's, excellent lung function. Am I fit? I don't think so! Then my genetics suggest a life span around 80+ years, and some of those "old boys" who "prepared" themselves with all kinds of exotic cocktails (documented in historical writings), lived into their 90's, others passed on in the 60's and 70's. The genetic roulette wheel has much to answer for.

I don't really get what you are saying other than that you don't really know either!
And what has your own fitness to do with the matter? I don't imagine that you are a PED user.

Anyhow:

Dr Fuentes, his sister and three former cycling coaches are charged with breaking public health laws.
They could not be charged with doping-related crimes because Spain had no anti-doping law at the time of their arrest.
Prosecutors must prove that the defendants' actions put the lives of the athletes at risk - something the defence is expected to deny.

Let's see what worms clamber out of that can.

 

[resal]

How quick are the majority of posters to condemn, when we are talking about history....... People had mouths to feed, no excuse I know, but often the team domestique rider (average pro career maybe 4 years) needed to make what he/she could to try and secure a better future than a job in a factory.
A difficult task to square the circle.

I had not spotted this before. What complete and utter rubbish. I started work in a factory at 16. Because I had to. Zero other choices. I still have the jersey I bought with my first weeks wages, many decades ago. A rubbish multicoloured thing but it was new and my first ever new jersey, everything else I had before was at least 2nd hand in most cases about 4th hand, with holes in.

Working in a factory was absolutely stunning - I got paid. A simple deal, I did stuff somebody wanted me to do and I got enough money to live on and a little left over. Like many of the 4,000 others at that factory, we did an honest day's work and got an honest day's pay. What the he** is wrong with that ?

I haven't doped and I haven't stolen. I don't park on double yellow lines and I don't take what is not mine. I have never bought a new car and I am sure I never will. I have my family to feed and certainly that influences every decision I make in life. My kids know that they will go without, but we, they, their mother and I, we will retain our dignity.

The dopers are scum. They rob from others and they lie. There is no excuse. I don't care how "dark" it is, or what anyone else is doing, or what the history is, if it is wrong you don't do it. It is not complicated. I don't need a new car, a fancy phone or other rubbish. I actually like riding to work every day. I liked riding in the snow. I don't need to steal so that I can have a bigger house or throw more beer down my neck. I'll settle for what I can afford and love it, mainly because it is mine and I got it by my hard work.

Yates did not know anything about Lance ! Pull the other one. Yates retires on health grounds. Sorry Sky lost me some time ago. I don't trust Brailsford with all the lies regarding de yong, Leinders, Barry and the rest. If this marginal gains gets as much detailed analysis as they say they put into it, then the only way they employed that little lot is by making sure they looked the other way. Because I now have zero confidence that Brailsford tells the truth, I am very sad to say, it spins off onto the others. Cav was making his own bed well before Sky came along and he cheats. I have as much respect for him as I do Millar, but Brad was somebody I thought I could trust. I now don't and I'm very sad that I don't.

Each day I think less of my Federation as it becomes more corrupted by the Sky story.

 

[pauldavid]

I had not spotted this before. What complete and utter rubbish. I started work in a factory at 16. Because I had to. Zero other choices. I still have the jersey I bought with my first weeks wages, many decades ago. A rubbish multicoloured thing but it was new and my first ever new jersey, everything else I had before was at least 2nd hand in most cases about 4th hand, with holes in.

Working in a factory was absolutely stunning - I got paid. A simple deal, I did stuff somebody wanted me to do and I got enough money to live on and a little left over. Like many of the 4,000 others at that factory, we did an honest day's work and got an honest day's pay. What the he** is wrong with that ?

I haven't doped and I haven't stolen. I don't park on double yellow lines and I don't take what is not mine. I have never bought a new car and I am sure I never will. I have my family to feed and certainly that influences every decision I make in life. My kids know that they will go without, but we, they, their mother and I, we will retain our dignity.

The dopers are scum. They rob from others and they lie. There is no excuse. I don't care how "dark" it is, or what anyone else is doing, or what the history is, if it is wrong you don't do it. It is not complicated. I don't need a new car, a fancy phone or other rubbish. I actually like riding to work every day. I liked riding in the snow. I don't need to steal so that I can have a bigger house or throw more beer down my neck. I'll settle for what I can afford and love it, mainly because it is mine and I got it by my hard work.

Yates did not know anything about Lance ! Pull the other one. Yates retires on health grounds. Sorry Sky lost me some time ago. I don't trust Brailsford with all the lies regarding de yong, Leinders, Barry and the rest. If this marginal gains gets as much detailed analysis as they say they put into it, then the only way they employed that little lot is by making sure they looked the other way. Because I now have zero confidence that Brailsford tells the truth, I am very sad to say, it spins off onto the others. Cav was making his own bed well before Sky came along and he cheats. I have as much respect for him as I do Millar, but Brad was somebody I thought I could trust. I now don't and I'm very sad that I don't.

Each day I think less of my Federation as it becomes more corrupted by the Sky story.

How does Cav cheat?

Why have you lost faith with Brad?

Not trying to be provocative, just genuinely interested in your thoughts and their origins. As a relative jonny come lately compared to many on here I don't understand your brief comment at the end about these two.

I appreciate that with any sport people will have personal likes and dislikes but I am intrigued by your comments as you make it sound like you know more than you've said.

 

[oldroadman]

I had not spotted this before. What complete and utter rubbish. I started work in a factory at 16. Because I had to. Zero other choices. I still have the jersey I bought with my first weeks wages, many decades ago. A rubbish multicoloured thing but it was new and my first ever new jersey, everything else I had before was at least 2nd hand in most cases about 4th hand, with holes in.

Working in a factory was absolutely stunning - I got paid. A simple deal, I did stuff somebody wanted me to do and I got enough money to live on and a little left over. Like many of the 4,000 others at that factory, we did an honest day's work and got an honest day's pay. What the he** is wrong with that ?

I haven't doped and I haven't stolen. I don't park on double yellow lines and I don't take what is not mine. I have never bought a new car and I am sure I never will. I have my family to feed and certainly that influences every decision I make in life. My kids know that they will go without, but we, they, their mother and I, we will retain our dignity.

The dopers are scum. They rob from others and they lie. There is no excuse. I don't care how "dark" it is, or what anyone else is doing, or what the history is, if it is wrong you don't do it. It is not complicated. I don't need a new car, a fancy phone or other rubbish. I actually like riding to work every day. I liked riding in the snow. I don't need to steal so that I can have a bigger house or throw more beer down my neck. I'll settle for what I can afford and love it, mainly because it is mine and I got it by my hard work.

Yates did not know anything about Lance ! Pull the other one. Yates retires on health grounds. Sorry Sky lost me some time ago. I don't trust Brailsford with all the lies regarding de yong, Leinders, Barry and the rest. If this marginal gains gets as much detailed analysis as they say they put into it, then the only way they employed that little lot is by making sure they looked the other way. Because I now have zero confidence that Brailsford tells the truth, I am very sad to say, it spins off onto the others. Cav was making his own bed well before Sky came along and he cheats. I have as much respect for him as I do Millar, but Brad was somebody I thought I could trust. I now don't and I'm very sad that I don't.

Each day I think less of my Federation as it becomes more corrupted by the Sky story.

Well, you are entitled to your opinion and to express it as forcefully as you wish. That is your priviledge. Doubtless others may share your strong feelings, others may not.
My shoulders are metaphorically broad, and tempered by experience, so fire away, no worries.