Worrying times.

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In a world where everyone gets a degree, someone still has to clean toilets, stack shelves, and pick litter. The philosophy of the meritocracy denies that to a very large extent the economy is a zero-sum game: yes, anyone can become Prime Minister, but only at the expense of the other 66,999,999 who don't.
An example of this would be what economists call the winner takes all effect, professor Robert Frank illustrates this with the music industry. A century or so ago, each town of any size would have a music hall along with its resident performers, some were bit better than others, but there was enough work for thousands of them to make a comfortable living. Then along comes recording technology. Now everyone in the country has access to the work of the top-notch performers, so that's what they all buy, and before you know it there's a small handful of artists who become fabulously wealthy, whilst all the music halls close, and everyone else is reduced to singing in pubs for beer money.
Of course the economy has grown, because everyone gets to listen to more and cheaper music, but wealth isn't measured in absolute terms. Nobody who's struggling to pay the rent and feed the kids will regard themselves as wealthy because they're better off than their ancestors who lived in a cave. Wealth is relative, because people compare themselves to their peers, and also to the wealth they see flaunted on TV. And that matters a great deal, because status is strongly linked to both morbidity and mortality, even relatively well-off civil servants suffer worse health if their position is low status.
I am not sure that is the case.

Each generation progresses, more educated, those holding degrees have shot up and now have access to more opportunities.

Our kids have no intention of going down coal mines, clean homes or do menial work even though it is honest work. They use their education to build a better life for themselves and the next generation.

Now even if you have a comfortable life, live in a good neighbourhood, you end up DIY from plumbing to gardening. Try getting a maid, a gardener or even tradesman. A good competent plumber earns more than many graduates.

Forget about the old days and music halls. We got some wayward economists with silly theories just we have whole lot of politicians with PPE from Oxbridge that can't steer a ship. The old days were worse when exploitation of workers were at an all time high. Hence the rise of Marxism. It was time of Lords and serfs, industrialists and sweatshops. Now days we have the living wage.

The only ones grumbling about the present are those who are not prepared to invest in their future. There are now more individuals who have come from poor families and gone to Oxbridge and the corporate World. In those days, the class system would not allow you entry anywhere except thru the backdoor to the servants quarters.

Look at the musicians that have made it big, where do you think they came from - Eton?

Never envy people who crossed from the wrong sides of the track and made it big and have become wealthy. Gone are the barriers. Its up to the individual to take his chances. Never blame others.

I am in the midst of recruiting and the CVs and the interviews tell me how society has progressed. I see varied background, ethnicity and cultures. I am amazed. It's a much better world for more people than before. 30 years ago, people from many of these background would not have a chance.
 
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theclaud

Openly Marxist
Location
Swansea
Probably the last one in stock before I got there.
I promise to guilt-trip her on your behalf when I next speak to her. :smile:
 

classic33

Leg End Member
When I worked as a gardener for a local nursery I was sent to clear gardens at houses for sale with overgrown gardens. I got the bus from Helensburgh to Garelochhead several times with a full size scythe with a bit of sacking round the blade. Nobody batted an eye.
I didn't have any sacking/sack cloth.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I am not sure that is the case.

Each generation progresses, more educated, those holding degrees have shot up and now have access to more opportunities.

Our kids have no intention of going down coal mines, clean homes or do menial work even though it is honest work. They use their education to build a better life for themselves and the next generation.

Now even if you have a comfortable life, live in a good neighbourhood, you end up DIY from plumbing to gardening. Try getting a maid, a gardener or even tradesman. A good competent plumber earns more than many graduates.

Forget about the old days and music halls. We got some wayward economists with silly theories just we have whole lot of politicians with PPE from Oxbridge that can't steer a ship. The old days were worse when exploitation of workers were at an all time high. Hence the rise of Marxism. It was time of Lords and serfs, industrialists and sweatshops. Now days we have the living wage.

The only ones grumbling about the present are those who are not prepared to invest in their future. There are now more individuals who have come from poor families and gone to Oxbridge and the corporate World. In those days, the class system would not allow you entry anywhere except thru the backdoor to the servants quarters.

Look at the musicians that have made it big, where do you think they came from - Eton?

Never envy people who crossed from the wrong sides of the track and made it big and have become wealthy. Gone are the barriers. Its up to the individual to take his chances. Never blame others.

I am in the midst of recruiting and the CVs and the interviews tell me how society has progressed. I see varied background, ethnicity and cultures. I am amazed. It's a much better world for more people than before. 30 years ago, people from many of these background would not have a chance.

What is important to do though is not to undervalue, or look down on skilled manual trades, service, or vocational work, as the sort of thing that only certain types of people would wish to do.

As if they are probably 'beneath' the consideration of intelligent or able people .

I think that's been a big mistake made in this country.

Left over from our antiquated, and in many ways unhelpful 'class system'.

Which has been corrosive to our society in so many ways, over the years.

That has certainly held people back, and stopped them working together for change, but in more subtle ways.

But it's still pitched people against each other.

And falsely suggested that everyone has 'equal opportunities' 'equal advantages' that some people aren't still held back, it's just not true.


I come from an academic background , but wanted to use my hands as well as head and to be outside, in pursuit of my career.

So I went into agriculture


I'm seeing increasing numbers of young people with often unrelated degree level qualification wanting to come into this line of work.

Even coming to train with me on my farm.

They want to do something practical, active, and meaningful.

For way too many years we particularly in the UK have looked down our noses at craft, vocational, and service work.

And we've undervalued it.

Preferring to import labour, or outsource for "those sorts of jobs"


Look where we've ended up, with a massive skills gap.

With a shortage of people who can do these essential jobs well.

We've just not valued them enough, status wise as well as pay.
A lot of people don't get a living wage,

We've allowed this snobbishness to get in the way of having a well rounded, and well trained, secure, and properly trained work force.

There's still an over hierarchical idea of who does and doesn't deserve respect for who they are, and what they do, and as a result they dont get properly rewarded for what they do.

Their employment rights don't get protected.
wtaf is this zero hours thing.??

It's like food banks, suddenly ' insecurity' has become normalised.

You can even see and hear the sneering attitude of the Etonian types as they patronisingly 'clap' for the very NHS they're systematically running down.

Oh and don't get me started on all the unpaid labour that gets done and goes unnoticed..

And the public services propped up by charity work.
 
What is important to do though is not to undervalue, or look down on skilled manual trades, service, or vocational work, as the sort of thing that only certain types of people would wish to do.
I mentioned that plumbers are paid better than graduates, all these are "honest" work. Nowhere is the work is said to be undervalued. Just want to be clear that post are not misinterpreted or used as a pivot to address other issues.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
I mentioned that plumbers are paid better than graduates, all these are "honest" work. Nowhere is the work is said to be undervalued. Just want to be clear that post are not misinterpreted or used as a pivot to address other issues.

They are, but those trades, and the people practising them, are still often looked down on , by certain sections of society.

And there is definitely a 'them and us' mentality deliberately whipped up by people wishing to divide and rule.

Such as describing immigrants who come here, or who have come here in the past to do vital work, as 'unskilled labour'

Whilst also painting them as parasites or scroungers.
 

mudsticks

Obviously an Aubergine
The future looks bleak. Petrol shortages coming this week, empty shelves in shops, big increase in energy prices and food, government planning to charge per mile motoring and who knows what else.
I am getting very concerned and wondering if both of our pensions will be able to cope with it all. Worrying times indeed.

If you're really worried it would be worth detailing all your essential expenditure , and seeing where you can make savings.

I've not used such sites but I've heard that places like this

Can be really helpful.

Good luck.:okay:
 
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