Worn out steel frames

[Globalti]

I'm pretty sure car springs do collapse over time. Nothing beats the ride feel of a new car and nothing feels worse than the ride feel of a tired old car.

 

[Tigerbiten]

I'm pretty sure car springs do collapse over time. Nothing beats the ride feel of a new car and nothing feels worse than the ride feel of a tired old car.

I'd put that down more to the shock absorbers getting old and not damping the ride properly rather than the spring collapsing over time.

 

[Globalti]

I thought that but wouldn't the ride feel more bouncy?

 

[rogerzilla]

Car springs don't really sag with normal use as spring steel is extremely resistant to creep. Serious overloading can, however, compress them permanently.

The things about steel frames getting tired is an old myth. It's certainly true that steel frames will fatigue and break if overloaded, under-specified or overheated during brazing/welding, so in that respect they can wear out - but they ride normally until they crack one day. I know steel has a fatigue limit (of about half the breaking stress) but in practice I see lots of broken steel frames; the normal specifications of steel tubing and lugs are only adequate if the frame is well built and the rider weight and usage don't exceed its capabilities. You wouldn't build an MTB frame with Columbus EL and expect it to last.

Frames used very hard for a few seasons can suffer from crashes and knocks which misalign them, and this is thought to be one basis of the claim in the racing fraternity. A misaligned frame can feel a bit stodgy to ride, as the tyres are scrubbing more than they should and it doesn't steer itself. However, it just needs a realignment, not a replacement.

 

[Drago]

I'm pretty sure car springs do collapse over time. Nothing beats the ride feel of a new car and nothing feels worse than the ride feel of a tired old car.

Spring steel matey, a different set of characteristics at play. That's why bike frames and car chassis'arent made from spring steel, and why suspension springs aren't made from 531.

 

[Globalti]

Ha ha my brother used to own a Jetta GTI which he stuffed in a ditch. He ended up getting the bodyshell straightened with hydraulic jacks but it was never quite the same again.

 

[MrPie]

As a materials, corrosion and welding professional I can confirm that it is complete bollix. It may fatigue over a very long timeframe (but very unlikely given the intended use and stresses involved) but talk of stress approaching yield, creep and other such technical stuff is nonsense.

 

[Tigerbiten]

As a materials, corrosion and welding professional I can confirm that it is complete bollix. It may fatigue over a very long timeframe (but very unlikely given the intended use and stresses involved) but talk of stress approaching yield, creep and other such technical stuff is nonsense.

It can.
But you do need the frame built with a bad batch of tubes for this to happen.
I've had a frame on a recumbent trike replaced under warranty after a year due to this.
I never crashed it but it was ridden hard/fast on very rough roads/tracks
You could see the front wheels where on longer vertical and ripples in the paintwork on the tube joining them.
None of the other trike frames I had/have have ever failed like that.
Like everything, if you get the exact set of circumstances right then bike frames can fail this way.
But like a cracked frame, the chances are very small that you'll see one.

 

[MrPie]

It can.
But you do need the frame built with a bad batch of tubes for this to happen.

Well, obvs. If you buy a chicken sandwich and get ham in it, it won't taste like chicken

 

[Tigerbiten]

Well, obvs. If you buy a chicken sandwich and get ham in it, it won't taste like chicken

If I got a ham sandwich when I ordered a chicken one, then I'd take it back straight away.
Or I'd eat it if I also liked ham and couldn't be bothered to take it back .........
That like ordering a bike and getting one with a slightly different spec build.
You'd either take it back or keep it if you think it's as good or better for what you want.

What you mean to say is if you buy a chicken sandwich and getting food poisoning from it.
Unless it's very bad, you cannot tell it's bad until after you've used it.
Then after things go wrong it's up to you to argue with someone that it was bad when you bought it.
It's the same as a bike with a defect, unless it's very obvious you cannot tell if it has a bad weld/tube/design/part.
It will only fail after some days/months/years of use.
The you may or may not get a warranty fix.

Luck ............

 

[Bonefish Blues]

If I got a ham sandwich when I ordered a chicken one, then I'd take it back straight away.
Or I'd eat it if I also liked ham and couldn't be bothered to take it back .........
That like ordering a bike and getting one with a slightly different spec build.
You'd either take it back or keep it if you think it's as good or better for what you want.

What you mean to say is if you buy a chicken sandwich and getting food poisoning from it.
Unless it's very bad, you cannot tell it's bad until after you've used it.
Then after things go wrong it's up to you to argue with someone that it was bad when you bought it.
It's the same as a bike with a defect, unless it's very obvious you cannot tell if it has a bad weld/tube/design/part.
It will only fail after some days/months/years of use.
The you may or may not get a warranty fix.

Luck ............

Or is it like ordering a finest, hand-reared, free range chicken sandwich and spying them using Tesco Basic chicken. These definitions matter!

 

[Globalti]

Sounds foul....

 

[12boy]

I am glad to hear these opinions, having hoped the dead frame thing was bogus. I think that if one of my fleet is feeling sluggish, I will make sure the tires are pressured correctly , my chain is clean and well lubed, whatever gear system I have on the bike are working as they should, wheels are true, pedals spinning freely.....

 

[mickle]

It undoubtedly suited the industry to have their sponsored riders repeat the myth that steel frames deteriorate over time. Or else (particularly during those decades where technology didn't move very far year on year) why else would they need to replace the team's frames every season?

I remember Vitus and Alan bonded/lugged aluminum frames being described in the industry as 'single season' or in professional circles 'one race' frames. But knowing how they behaved I don't think that's far from the truth. Upon hearing that someone had purchased a lovely new skinny tubed aluminum frame the first question was always: 'Does it creak yet'?

 

[Ajax Bay]

I remember Vitus and Alan bonded/lugged aluminum frames being described in the industry as 'single season' or in professional circles 'one race' frames. But knowing how they behaved I don't think that's far from the truth.

My '81 lugged aluminium 'shiny' ALAN, screwed and glued, is doing just fine, tvm.