Wood burners

[BRounsley]

And back to the op...

Reading around, it seems that wood burning stoves produce particulates (same as diesel) which can on occasion, be comparable to the effect on air quality of traffic volumes. If you're going to get one, get a modern one, which appears on the approved list http://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/appliances.php?country=e in fact in smokeless areas, you can only get one like that. Modern stoves produce 14mg of particulates per cubic metre of air compared to an older stove which produces a 100mg. I'll post a link if I find a decent article.

I have noticed when I go out at night sometimes, that you can smell them burning, which even a few years ago, didn't happen.

Back on OP...

They recon the “Clean Air Acts” was the biggest single steps to improve public health.

Unfortunately the hipsters where I live (Chorlton, Manchester) seem to think we all want to live at Beamish. My granddad and lot of my extended family were coalminers and I sent a lot of my life in colliery areas. The familiar childhood smell of unburnt carbon is very much back.

Most people don’t realise if you live in a “smoke control area” that burning wood (or anything other none approved smokeless fuel) is illegal.

Most people don’t realise that most urban arears (the whole of urban Manchester is) is a “smoke control area”.

The evidence is also mounting about the scale of biomass fuel as a killer. Which isn’t a surprise to me, as nearly all of my colliery dwelling family didn’t make it into their 80s.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/

I do wonder how many people drive their diesel cars to buy some logs and “Bolivia organic quinoa”. Yes, “Unicorn” sells logs as well as mislabelled quinoa!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ly-chorlton-ethical-grocer-apologises-7090873

I’ve not done it myself, but if you live in Manchester Council and are sick of your washing smelling like an ashtray, then here is the link.

https://secure.manchester.gov.uk/forms/form/685/air_quality-report_a_problem”

I brace myself for the wood loving hate!

 

[raleighnut]

Back on OP...

They recon the “Clean Air Acts” was the biggest single steps to improve public health.

Unfortunately the hipsters where I live (Chorlton, Manchester) seem to think we all want to live at Beamish. My granddad and lot of my extended family were coalminers and I sent a lot of my life in colliery areas. The familiar childhood smell of unburnt carbon is very much back.

Most people don’t realise if you live in a “smoke control area” that burning wood (or anything other none approved smokeless fuel) is illegal.

Most people don’t realise that most urban arears (the whole of urban Manchester is) is a “smoke control area”.

The evidence is also mounting about the scale of biomass fuel as a killer. Which isn’t a surprise to me, as nearly all of my colliery dwelling family didn’t make it into their 80s.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs292/en/

I do wonder how many people drive their diesel cars to buy some logs and “Bolivia organic quinoa”. Yes, “Unicorn” sells logs as well as mislabelled quinoa!

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ly-chorlton-ethical-grocer-apologises-7090873

I’ve not done it myself, but if you live in Manchester Council and are sick of your washing smelling like an ashtray, then here is the link.

https://secure.manchester.gov.uk/forms/form/685/air_quality-report_a_problem”

I brace myself for the wood loving hate!

What part of the Defra Approved EXEMPT appliance do you not understand.

 

[summerdays]

I do wonder how many people drive their diesel cars to buy some logs and “Bolivia organic quinoa”. Yes, “Unicorn” sells logs as well as mislabelled quinoa!

I do go in our car to pick up the logs but we usually combine it with another need to use the car, and at least I know the logs are sourced under a mile from my house.

 

[BRounsley]

What part of the Defra Approved EXEMPT appliance do you not understand.

Like the original post mentioned. The issue is not the legal burners, doing it in a clean and considerate way.

It’s the whole sway of people (including friends, neighbours and the local drinking establishments) that have had their chimney swept and are burning whatever wood comes to hand in an open fire. Some of it’s so green I have no idea how they light it!

You mention “smoke control area” and they look at you blankly. I had one friend that posted on Facebook how she was burning garden waste at the bottom of the garden! The uninformed think what they’re doing is wholesome and are unaware of the fines or the health issues.

Unfortunately the smoke doesn’t say inside their houses!

 

[Chromatic]

I am, if the woodburner is lit then any kettle or saucepan on it is heated for free.
However lighting a woodburner to boil a kettle would not be very efficient (BTW do not put an electric kettle on top of a woodburner.....The powerlead may melt)

I get the point you and brand are making but it is nothing to do with the efficiency of the stove or even anything to do with the efficiency of the transfer of heat from the stove to the water container. What you are actually talking about is a different use of the heat already produced. In the case of stove on its own all the heat produced goes to warm the room, in the case of stove plus pan of water plonked on it some heat goes to warm the water, some goes to heat the room.

 

[brand]

I get the point you and brand are making but it is nothing to do with the efficiency of the stove or even anything to do with the efficiency of the transfer of heat from the stove to the water container. What you are actually talking about is a different use of the heat already produced. In the case of stove on its own all the heat produced goes to warm the room, in the case of stove plus pan of water plonked on it some heat goes to warm the water, some goes to heat the room.

Your implying that we add extra wood to heat the water, we don't, the loss of heat is to small to have any effect on the heat warming the room. Once the water is hot it doesn't get hotter the excess heat goes into the room.
Presently I have 2 kettles on the wood burner both on trivets, once they started boiling again. I had poured both kettles of boiling water into the washing machine at the start of a wash. There is also a pan of stock bubbling away none of the latter will result in me adding extra wood. Therefore I am using none to heat the water or stock.

 

[Chromatic]

Your implying that we add extra wood to heat the water, we don't, the loss of heat is to small to have any effect on the heat warming the room. Once the water is hot it doesn't get hotter the excess heat goes into the room.
Presently I have 2 kettles on the wood burner both on trivets, once they started boiling again. I had poured both kettles of boiling water into the washing machine at the start of a wash. There is also a pan of stock bubbling away none of the latter will result in me adding extra wood. Therefore I am using none to heat the water or stock.

No i'm not.

 

[brand]

I am, if the woodburner is lit then any kettle or saucepan on it is heated for free.

Your implying that we add extra wood to heat the water, we don't, the loss of heat is to small to have any effect on the heat warming the room. Once the water is hot it doesn't get hotter the excess heat goes into the room.
Presently I have 2 kettles on the wood burner both on trivets, once they started boiling again. I had poured both kettles of boiling water into the washing machine at the start of a wash. There is also a pan of stock bubbling away none of the latter will result in me adding extra wood. Therefore I am using none to heat the water or stock.

No i'm not.

What are you implying\saying? Raleighnut says it is heated for free. It is unless you add wood, then it isn't.
Just washed in the water from one kettle and made my tea with the other. It heated overnight no extra wood added, unless I sleep feed my wood burner!

 

[Chromatic]

It (the water) is heated at the expense of heat to the room, that's all I'm saying.
Look at it like this.
Lets say the output from the stove is 10 beans.
In case 1, with no water heating, then all 10 beans go to heat the room.
In case 2, heating some water, then some of those beans have to go to heat the water, say 3 beans, this leaves 7 beans to heat the room.

I take your point about it being heated for 'free' (ie. in that no extra wood is burned) but I refer you back to what I said in post 166, all you are actually talking about is a different use of the heat produced.

 

[brand]

In case 1, with no water heating, then all 10 beans go to heat the room.
In case 2, heating some water, then some of those beans have to go to heat the water, say 3 beans, this leaves 7 beans to heat the room. I take your point about it being heated for 'free' (ie. in that no extra wood is burned) but I refer you back to what I said in post 166, all you are actually talking about is a different use of the heat produced.

All we are talking about is heating the keetles/stock pot etc is useing a tenth of a bean and 9.9 beans are heating the room!!

 

[Chromatic]

All we are talking about is heating the keetles/stock pot etc is useing a tenth of a bean and 9.9 beans are heating the room!!

Exactly. As you say, all we are talking about is using some of the heat to heat the water and some to heat the room, as opposed to using all the heat to heat the room. The total used is the same but is distributed differently.

 

[raleighnut]

Some of the newer models are quite efficient as well. ours is quoted at 75% which is higher than the old 'back boiler'
BTW this is not my living room, I just don't have a digital camera yet.

 

[Chromatic]

[QUOTE 3593839, member: 9609"]None of the heat is lost, some of it is just temporarily stored within the water of the kettle then released into the room as the kettle cools.[/QUOTE]

True if you leave the water to cool, but what is the point of that?

 

[Chromatic]

So, we're all agreed, nothing is gained, nothing is lost so long as the person and the pot of water stays in the room, it just reaches the same destination via different paths.

 

[welsh dragon]

This is beginning to sound like a puzzle that the participants have to fathom out before going any further. A bit like cluedo. it was the butler I tell you