Women's Cycling

[jefmcg]

Is that order just random, or an order of priority?

Moving up the left side of stationary traffic doesn't endanger anyone but the cyclist themselves, and is an everyday occurrence for many, so how would fining the cyclist work?

List is random thoughts of the top of my head of things that could be suggested. I'm not endorsing any of them. Just indicating fault isn't a factor in any remedial suggestion I could dream up.

 

[jefmcg]

I forgot that blog entry from Dave. Just illustrates perfectly the whole blind spot bullshit.

Ok, blind spot was just a thought.

Any other idea as to why women a dying in central London so disproportionately and largely under left turning HGVs?

 

[Simpleton]

Ok, blind spot was just a thought.

Any other idea as to why women a dying in central London so disproportionately and largely under left turning HGVs?

No idea, and I would not like to speculate.

 

[seraphina]

Bit late to this one but for what it's worth here's my 2p. By the time we are asking why women don't cycle, it's too late. As a kid growing up, sport is generally not really expected of women/girls. With the exception of tennis, women's sport on TV was a rarity when I was growing up. Even now, every four years we get Jessica Ennis at the Olympics and then it's back to football, rugby, formula 1, men's cycling. How much media coverage was there of Nicole Cooke or Lizzie Armitage winning WCs?

My dad was a big cyclist/runner etc. So he got to spend his weekends doing things like that whilst my Mum looked after the kids. There's a cultural expectation that I can look after the kids whilst MrS can do fun stuff at the weekend (this isn't what happens, BTW) and given that I almost always see packs of men out cycling at weekends, it doesn't seem to have changed that much.

So even if you overcome all that and think, hey, I want to go cycling, off you trot to your LBS. When was the last time you saw LBS window display with anything other than a road bike (for the men, obvs) or if they think to target the women's market, a Pashley Princess?

Bike acquired, maybe you think about joining a local cycling club. Which is probably run by a man and will fall into one of two categories - the kind that like to sleep in bus shelters or the Lycra clad Strava warriors. Given you'll need to write off a morning/afternoon of a weekend to try a group ride out, is it worth the hassle? Not really, so off we trot to our socially approved exercise classes, Zumba and Aquafit.

There's always cycling with the kids -but if you're not confident on a bike and see media messages takllking about how dangerous cycling is, are you going to take that risk? No, so cycling is confined to Centre Parcs at half term.

Interestingly, I think running has seen a surge in women's participation. I think some of that is because once you've got a half decent pair of trainers, you can use an app on your smartphone to get going.

 

[Dutchonwheels]

There is a lot of different reasons being given, why women are not cycling so much, and it's good to see most people are aware of the possible reasons specially the lack of media coverage of women's sports. I don't know much about pro cycling, not really interested, but I do know from experience that a lot has to do with society. In Holland, there is no difference in male v female percentage of cyclists, so I suspect it has got to do with the general outlook and social expectations. Women in the UK, specially the older ones are not so 'in to' outdoor activities (and please don't hang me for saying that, I mean it as a comparison) and I think cycling is not seen as a normal activity, open to all. The country is not really geared up to people using a bike for leisure or daily life so it has been separated and viewed as a 'sport' which very often means, organised and joining a club. Knowing that a lot of women just don't have the time to do something extra outside of family life (and again, I don't mean that as being sexist, but guys do tend to have or make space for leisure time more than most women do) and cycling with kids in tow is not easy (extra bikes, safety, no designated cycle paths) and on your own as a women is very often not a safe option. Of course us women like to have company and while a man would takes his bike and has a run out on his own, many women prefer someone to share the experience. I know there is a lot of generalization here, but they are all small facets of how cycling has developed in the UK and why we are were we are. If the infa structure would allow a bit more financing for cycle paths and cycling in general would be made more acceptable and easier option, we might see a change. Let's hope so for future generations.

 

[mjr]

Like @Dutchonwheels, I see the cycling=sport misperception as part of the problem, but I disagree that "a man would takes his bike and has a run out on his own" - maybe the minority of men who currently cycle would, but they're a minority. I wouldn't be surprised if the five-sixths who don't cycle would like friendly people to ride with too, especially if they're also part of another minority group. I agree that safe-feeling and child-friendly rides are things that should be provided too.

I agree with @seraphina about media and recent general culture, but I hope a change in cycling culture is underway as more people wake up to the need to get out of the couches and motorised armchairs.

When was the last time you saw LBS window display with anything other than a road bike (for the men, obvs) or if they think to target the women's market, a Pashley Princess?

Yesterday. https://goo.gl/maps/qbtdcfcRq3q shows the same shop from a while ago - not a woman's road bike, but only a minority ride road bikes now, don't they? I can't see in the window of the two sportier bike shops (one is obscured by the reflection of the StreetView car, the other by parked cars/vans.) But it's not unusual to see people in suits propelling town bikes or old hybrids around here, or children in a trailer or bakfiets.

While I recognise the British Cycling club stereotype (male-run, lycra-loaded, no short rides, ...), other types of cycling group are available: I like freewheeling groups with diverse leadership, ordinary clothes and bikes, some short evening rides and so on. Why don't more people try other groups before dismissing cycling?

 

[seraphina]

@Dutchonwheels Bit of stereotyping there wrt some wanting company on rides;-) If I am lucky I get out on my bike once a week to commute (about 19 miles all told) and I bloody love having time to myself!

@mjray Glad you are seeing half decent window displays! I live just outside Cambridge and yes, there are a good number of bakfiets and a high proportion of utility cyclists. But I can count on one hand the number of parents who utility cycle.

Wrt other cycling clubs - Cambridge has quite a good CTC group IIRC but who has the time to check out different groups, assuming they exist? If you're limited to weekends, you've also got to fit in swimming lessons, building a Roman fort for school homework, washing, kid's party, etc etc...

It may sound like I am being deliberately defeatist but I am just trying to illustrate some reasons why women might not cycle - it needs to be at the very top of your priority list to fit it in. And I am sure plenty of these reasons apply to men too. I do think that utility cycling is far and away the best thing to try and highlight, which is why I weep when I see some cyclists rant against segregated cycle paths. Infrastructure like that would help address some of the "cycling is dangerous" fears.

 

[Dutchonwheels]

@Dutchonwheels Bit of stereotyping there wrt some wanting company on rides;-) If I am lucky I get out on my bike once a week to commute (about 19 miles all told) and I bloody love having time to myself!'#

I am sorry @seraphina I must admit I love some time on my own as well.....but it's so much better with a good (girl)friend so you can put the world to rights while the wind takes all the frustration and laughter and scatters it around....omg, I'm going all poetic in my old age.

 

[mustang1]

As a female cyclist I understand I am in the minority here but I'm wondering why?

1. Why do less women cycle? A look round the women's section of any cycling store suggests there a very few of us out there!
2. Why is women's pro cycling not as big a deal as mens? Is it ultimately down to speed? I understand and accept that men are generally faster/stronger than women but surely if you're competing against women and you're the strongest thats the same as men competing against men?

Excuse my ignorance but I come from the equestrian world - one of the few sports out there where men and women compete against each other on an equal playing field.

1. When I go to an Evans store and check the clothing range, I go through all the mainly blacks eventually finding myself in the more colourful section. Then I realize I'm checking out women's clothes. I don't understand why men's clothes can't be more colourful. I'm not saying there's no colour at all, just extremely limited.

2. I've got no problem watching women's cycling. Not trying to be kinky or anything, but I think I prefer watching women's cycling, and not for the reasons you might be thinking. I recall seeing some race this year and it was way more fun than the blokes bit I can't put my finger on why. I reckon it was more competitive rather than guys just starting each other... Women were just getting on with it. (Sorry, can't recall what race it was, but iirc it was in London and plenty of rain).

 

[Milkfloat]

Here's a thing. Shooting used to be mixed in the olympics, or at least the Men's division was actually an open category, so women could enter. Until a woman won gold in skeet shooting, then they closed the category to women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Shan

As a man I think I have waited the appropriate 2 weeks for the ladies to have their say

I just thought I would comment on the Zhang Shan story. She won gold with a remarkable performance in 1992 with a world record setting score. Shooting actually separated by sex in 1984, except for trap and skeet. Trap and skeet planned to follow the rest of shooting and be separate well before she won gold.

I do not know why the separation occurred, but Zhang was a complete freak (in a good way), if women's shooting was not separate it is highly likely that we would never have heard of the likes of Amber Hill (maybe you have not) who acts as a huge role model to girls her age.

Myself I am equally happy to be out shot or overtaken (cycling) by men or women.

 

[mjr]

Even in the city of Brighton and Hove, where cycling clubs and groups abound, it's next to impossible to find the kind of utopian group you describe.

Aw heck. What's happened to the Shed Rides? I had high hopes for that... but OK, maybe in some places, good (not utopian... the road is not perfectly smooth) groups don't always exist, but they do in lots of places. Is it simply that we need better ways to find them?

 

[Pat "5mph"]

With a few exceptions, I don't like riding with men, I am simply too slow to keep up, I feel I should go faster, try, end up totally knackered.
Mind, most of the women I ride with are faster than me too, but for some reason I don't feel obliged to keep up. With the girls we say to each other "I wait for you up the hill" and that is that, while some guys insist on riding along me, slower than they really are, but faster than me. It gives me anxiety.
Then there is the "caring" factor: when on an all girls ride, if one has a mechanical or any other difficulty, we all stop to assist.
If I tell the girls you go along, I'll stay to help with the puncture or whatever, nobody will go. If one struggles, we will split the group, somebody always stays with the person struggling.
In a mixed group I have often seen the men leaving behind other men to sort out their problems, once a (male, experienced ride leader) practically abandoned another (male) that crashed, he left him to take a train home by himself, half dazed.
Another time, on a forum ride, 2 guys heard us girls screaming - one had lost a wheel on ice - they never even turned around! After they reasoned, well, if you were screaming you obviously were still alive. Charming!
Then there was the time when the male ride leader went miles ahead without waiting for me and a few others: ok, we only stopped for a comfort break, but we could have had a crash.
There is also the trust factor: I don't like riding bunched up with guys, I find their riding aggressive. By large, riding with girls feels safer, even the wobbly ones, I can predict what they are going to do, men I cannot.
Finally there is the patronizing factor: do I really have to be told, on losing my chain on a deserted country road, to "find a safe place to stop"?
Or to spin up a hill? Effoff, leave me to die in peace

 

[mjr]

I know there are mixed groups which don't abandon people, but like many, I've also firsthand experience of one that did. I don't see any reason why an all female ride wouldn't abandon riders unless they're a group with rules against it, but I've no personal experience of them, of course.

Other than that, the need to chase men but not women isn't one I share

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I don't see any reason why an all female ride wouldn't abandon riders unless they're a group with rules against it,

The Belles on Bikes can be found allover Scotland.
We don't leave anybody behind, ever, and it's not even in the rules.

 

[Kumquat]

As a man I think I have waited the appropriate 2 weeks for the ladies to have their say

I just thought I would comment on the Zhang Shan story. She won gold with a remarkable performance in 1992 with a world record setting score. Shooting actually separated by sex in 1984, except for trap and skeet. Trap and skeet planned to follow the rest of shooting and be separate well before she won gold.

I do not know why the separation occurred, but Zhang was a complete freak (in a good way), if women's shooting was not separate it is highly likely that we would never have heard of the likes of Amber Hill (maybe you have not) who acts as a huge role model to girls her age.

Myself I am equally happy to be out shot or overtaken (cycling) by men or women.

Totally unrelated to cycling, but in my (youth) shooting club, nearly all the best shots were girls, which seemed to be the standard status quo. I don't think there is much physical advantage to being male in shooting, so maybe the reason men do better is for other reasons?