Women's Cycling

[Milkfloat]

Totally unrelated to cycling, but in my (youth) shooting club, nearly all the best shots were girls, which seemed to be the standard status quo. I don't think there is much physical advantage to being male in shooting, so maybe the reason men do better is for other reasons?

My personal unsupported by research thoughts are, that it may have to do with cost and time. To be a great shot, you need to practice a lot - upwards of £500 per day in clay/cartridge costs and 5-6 hours at the top level. Even a good club shot will need to spend 10-15 hours per week at it. I also suggest that as a youth, a girl is more likely to listen and follow instruction, remaining open minded to a coach compared to a boy who thinks 'cool and gun, let's make it go bang'.

 

[totallyfixed]

With a few exceptions, I don't like riding with men, I am simply too slow to keep up, I feel I should go faster, try, end up totally knackered.
Mind, most of the women I ride with are faster than me too, but for some reason I don't feel obliged to keep up. With the girls we say to each other "I wait for you up the hill" and that is that, while some guys insist on riding along me, slower than they really are, but faster than me. It gives me anxiety.
Then there is the "caring" factor: when on an all girls ride, if one has a mechanical or any other difficulty, we all stop to assist.
If I tell the girls you go along, I'll stay to help with the puncture or whatever, nobody will go. If one struggles, we will split the group, somebody always stays with the person struggling.
In a mixed group I have often seen the men leaving behind other men to sort out their problems, once a (male, experienced ride leader) practically abandoned another (male) that crashed, he left him to take a train home by himself, half dazed.
Another time, on a forum ride, 2 guys heard us girls screaming - one had lost a wheel on ice - they never even turned around! After they reasoned, well, if you were screaming you obviously were still alive. Charming!
Then there was the time when the male ride leader went miles ahead without waiting for me and a few others: ok, we only stopped for a comfort break, but we could have had a crash.
There is also the trust factor: I don't like riding bunched up with guys, I find their riding aggressive. By large, riding with girls feels safer, even the wobbly ones, I can predict what they are going to do, men I cannot.
Finally there is the patronizing factor: do I really have to be told, on losing my chain on a deserted country road, to "find a safe place to stop"?
Or to spin up a hill? Effoff, leave me to die in peace

Pat, the experiences you have described are I believe becoming all too common, even among rides where it is mostly men. Maybe it reflects a general more uncaring society, for sure it is reflected in clubs where etiquette is being eroded by a new breed of riders who appear to be more aggressive than the old school I cut my teeth with. This may be controversial [who me?] but more people on bikes can be a double edged sword. Beginners, although you wouldn't think it to look at them with the latest carbon, electronic gears and trade team kit, are a new breed that have disposable income, a desire to emulate the pros but without the experience. This market was quickly exploited by the sportive organisers, followed closely by Strava. I have ridden with plenty of these newbies and it is not a pleasant experience, albeit sometimes hilarious.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Just an anecdote, but the club I occasionally ride with has a fair few women (and a woman as one of the founders I think). It may be because I ride with the easy going groups but there's no leaving of people behind, and quite a few women. I expect when you move up the levels to faster, more competitive groups it probably becomes more macho.

 

[Yazzoo]

love that this is still going and seeing everyones opinions

I was thinking about this thread last night when I duly chauffeured the little one to his tri-club and the OH went off on a mid week club ride. Same each week, never been discussed, it just seems to be the norm!

 

[seraphina]

@Milkfloat i suspect the idea that a female is more likely to listen to a coach/follow the rules is part of the reason so many women die cycling in London - they are obediently waiting their turn in the gutter. Not sitting at the ASL, 'cos that's pushy. Not jumping red lights (are more women killed waiting at lights than men jumping them???), not thinking sod that, I am extricating myself from this situation....

I also agree with whoever it was who objected to men cycling with them, slower than they would otherwise to look after the wimmen. To paraphrase an argument I have seen used in the Women in STEM debates, we don't need white knights, we need blokes to call other blokes out on dickish behaviour. This has the added advantage of making cycling a better place for everyone. There are probably loads of guys turned off by the behaviour on group rides, for example; it's just guys don't have a similar social conditioning of "must fit into group" or quite so much disapproval for doing their own thing.

FWIW when I rode motorbikes I found exactly the same atmosphere in group rides. Middle aged men wondered why no women rode with them; dismissed all concerns raised as they liked rides as they were so why change?

 

[jefmcg]

Then there is the "caring" factor: when on an all girls ride, if one has a mechanical or any other difficulty, we all stop to assist.
If I tell the girls you go along, I'll stay to help with the puncture or whatever, nobody will go. If one struggles, we will split the group, somebody always stays with the person struggling.
In a mixed group I have often seen the men leaving behind other men to sort out their problems, once a (male, experienced ride leader) practically abandoned another (male) that crashed, he left him to take a train home by himself, half dazed.
Another time, on a forum ride, 2 guys heard us girls screaming - one had lost a wheel on ice - they never even turned around! After they reasoned, well, if you were screaming you obviously were still alive. Charming!

I'm sorry you have had such negative experiences. I can't tell you the number of times I've been helped by other riders. They are usually men, not because men are more helpful, just more plentiful. As a "full value" audaxer, riders who are near me are usually running short of time, so it would be excusable to leave me behind. For example, on London-Edinburgh-London I had a gear cable break on the most isolated part of the journey, and the other riders near me really didn't want to leave me behind after helping me jury rig a 2-speed solution. The only reason to stay with me was in case the fix failed, and i had to walk, which would have meant they'd have missed completing the ride. I assured them that the worst case scenario, I could walk 15km to the next stop, and there was no need for us all to DNF.

I could list at least 1/2 dozen other cases. It goes beyond caring and way into gallantry, I think. Except I am sure they would do the same for a man in trouble. Maybe audaxers are different? Of course, being dropped on a club ride where you are going to be a taxi ride from home is not such a disaster.

 

[Smokin Joe]

Both clubs I belonged to were welcoming to female riders, indeed the first one (Easterley Road Club) were very strong in female riders having had a couple of internationals back in the day. I think the traditional clubs were more friendly to all types of cyclists than the MAMIL and STRAVA inspired outfits that have sprung up in recent years. I have a female friend back in London who joined such a club and from what she has told me they are a bunch of hi-tech kit and performance obsessed individuals who turn every club run into a race, leaving the slower riders to fend for themselves, often in the middle of nowhere. A few women who were members drifted away because of this, as did some male newcomers who were blown off the back on runs that were supposed to be no more than social rides. That NEVER happened in my day, unless club runs were specifically described as pre-season training sessions the group moved at the pace of the slowest with older members ready and willing to encourage and advise newcomers of both genders, and shorter slower rides for those were run in conjunction with a common tea stop.

I probably sound like an old fart, but the modern cycling scene doesn't cut it for me. The camaraderie and willingness to help newcomers turn into lifelong cyclists has largely disappeared.*

*EDIT: This forum being a great and welcome exception, of course.

 

[Pat "5mph"]

I expect when you move up the levels to faster, more competitive groups it probably becomes more macho.

Ahem ... the experiences I have described have happened on a CC Ecosse ride, on a social ride (intermediate, average speed 10mph on cycle paths) organized by a local cycling enterprise run for charity, and on a ride (CTC age group) organized by a local cycling lobby group.
The tour de France we weren't!
Nowadays I will only cycle in mixed groups if I know what the leader and/or some participants are like. I might go even if I think I could get dropped if I have a gpx file for the Garmin to get me home.
This is actually not difficult to do in Glasgow - to vet a prospective ride - most leisure riders here belong or have belonged to one or more clubs, we all know each other, if not personally through friends or facebook.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Ahem ... the experiences I have described have happened on a CC Ecosse ride, on a social ride (intermediate, average speed 10mph on cycle paths).

I'm not doubting it. I wasn't referring to your experiences. I was describing the club I ride with, which is mixed sex and easy going. I don't ride with the fast groups and I was speculating that they are probably different.

Apols for any misunderstanding.