Women's Cycling

[mjr]

AKA mansplaining

I have no idea who drafted British Cycling's Vision for Women or conducted its survey but I'm pretty sure the respondents to the survey were women. Feel free to correct any of it.

 

[jefmcg]

I have no idea who drafted British Cycling's Vision for Women or conducted its survey but I'm pretty sure the respondents to the survey were women. Feel free to correct any of it.

You really can't see it?

I knew some stats on this which I hoped might inform the discussion rather than it becoming a stack of anecdotes like certain other topics...

Which is both condescending and inaccurate. There are no real stats in what you posted, 30% of an unstated number of people selected on an unstated basis from an unstated population answered an unstated series of questions. Sounds anecdotal to me. And the rest of the list are anecdotes. I'm not sure why you think those anecdotes are more valuable than ours, or why you felt it was your job to "inform the discussion"

Classic mansplaining.

 

[mjr]

There are no real stats in what you posted

You're quite right. I've not got a reference for the source material and with the deletion of the BC women's website, I can't look it up. I apologise for that. However, we would have got here much more quickly if you had stated that rather than throwing sexist epithets around!

Is there reason to suspect that BC has misrepresented its survey results or screwed it up somehow?

Anyway, looking for alternative data, the Mintel report series "Bicycles in the UK" includes some men/women differences, but it's tedious to dig through http://reports.mintel.com/display/715760/ and I'm not sure there's much there better than the BC summary unless you pay big money. I don't have our local cycling profile dataset but I'll ask if I can have it. Anyone got other suggestions?

why you felt it was your job to "inform the discussion"

Not job, but I have an interest in it because I want to get more people cycling more, the under-represented groups (including my own) seem to have the biggest potential for growth and I hate to see such important discussions become a succession of rambling anecdotes.

 

[midliferider]

Yazzoo, you may be pleased to hear that I really enjoyed watching Lizzie Armitstead winning the road race on the TV. I liked it so much that I watched it again on the BBC website. I did not see any discussion/ thread on that achievement. Or did I miss that thread?

 

[suzeworld]

I've cycled for leisure over many years, and notice that nowadays more women seem to be out on the road compared to what I used to see 20 years ago --
so my sense of it is that there are MORE women, albeit less women than men, for sure ...

As for competitive sport, women are always under-represented for all sorts of reasons ...
If you find stuff written by Nicole Cook you get some blistering insight into the world of female professionals ... I have not read her autobiog yet, but she has given some great speeches on this topic. Worth a read to see what a real insider has found in her career,

and did you see much mention of LIz Armistead in the press recently when she won the world champion jersey ... ? very scant and disappointing that she was not front page news ... so even the great success women have had is scarcely reported ... hardly boosting the profile even when the success if awesome ...

very sad that,

 

[mjr]

I did not see any discussion/ thread on that achievement. Or did I miss that thread?

Yes. https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/u...ships-sept-19-27-spoilers.187584/post-3924559

 

[Slioch]

Just an observation, and apologies for being a male posting on a discussion thread about women's cycling, but I am seeing greater numbers of females out on their bikes. This is a really positive development.

 

[zizou]

Much of what has been said is correct, fundamentally though until women are treated as equals with men there will always be a problem. The media is very important in this equation and until they give equal reporting / coverage of women's events they are not going to be as inspired. Lizzie Armistead did not even get a mention on the BBC news when she won the road race World Championship last Saturday. Two of the biggest cycling organisations only have one woman apiece on their management committees.

In general i agree with you on the media coverage however i dont think in this particular case sexism is the problem. It was also the British track championships over the weekend and Laura Trott winning gold there made the BBC news whereas Armitstead becoming road world champ wasnt covered and nor were any of the other winners (male or female) at the track champs. The problem isn't just sexism it is the sports editors and journalists not being knowing much about "minority" sports and in that vacuum they instead focus on celebrity. Of course Trott is more than just a celebrity and has achieved great things but her success in Manchester last week was dwarfed many times over by Armitstead in Richmond and a competent sports editor / journalist would have known that and featured Armitstead over Trott.

In terms of the coverage both mens and womens events were fully covered on the red button, the womens race had highlights on sunday afternoon and the mens race monday afternoon.

 

[totallyfixed]

Here's a thing. Shooting used to be mixed in the olympics, or at least the Men's division was actually an open category, so women could enter. Until a woman won gold in skeet shooting, then they closed the category to women.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Shan

Here's another, I guess not that many on here watch ski jumping, but anyway, 3 years ago women finally appeared on tv [Eurosport] and produced some very incredibly good competition, but still it was only the very odd event that was shown compared to the mens. Move forward another year and women competed in mixed national teams, with of course the men always taking the final jump, men always go last in every sport because that is seen as the glory position and is never ever given to a woman. Does anyone realise how discriminatory that is? I digress, unfortunately for the men some of the women jumped further than they did. Move forward another year and women's ski jumping has now mysteriously been dropped by Eurosport, even in the Olympics in Sochi it was not shown, of course being in Russia it did not help that one of the Russian women was in a lesbian relationship.
Quote from a Guardian article

Even on the eve of the first Olympic competition, some attitudes remain unreconstructed. The Russian men's ski jumping coach, Alexander Arefyev, did not endear himself to the 30 female jumpers who will compete in Sochi:
"It's a pretty difficult sport with a high risk of injury. If a man gets a serious injury it's still not fatal, but for women it could end much more seriously," he said. "Women have another purpose – to have children, to do housework, to create hearth and home."

If you can spare the time read this and watch the 2nd one minute video.

http://deadspin.com/why-it-took-90-years-for-womens-ski-jumping-to-make-the-1520520342

PS if anyone can get to Monsal Head in The Peak District on Sunday, there is a famous hill climb competition in which most of the best female hill climbing cyclists in the country will be competing, including Jessie Walker [pro] and Dame Sarah Storey. It attracts hundreds of spectators and is amazing to watch, just 675yds of serious gurning.

 

[Smurfy]

Serious logistics question. If women ride the same distance as the men's cycling race, won't the pee stops be a bit tricky? It's not like ladies can just turn their backs and whip it out.

http://www.wheelsuckers.co.uk/page/toilet-stops

 

[ColinJ]

There you go @jefmcg @totallyfixed - women's cycling will never take off, because women can't p1ss standing up. End of thread.

If it doesn't end the thread, then somebody will probably use it as an explanation for making women's races shorter than men's!

Anyway, I can't hang around in this thread all day because I have a few things to do in preparation for my hilly forum ride tomorrow. My tiny friend Carrie is coming along again and as usual will no doubt leave me and all the other male riders grovelling in her wake every time the road goes uphill ...

 

[ColinJ]

I think somebody just did.

D'oh!

I must spend more time taking in posts rather than half-reading them and posting replies ...

 

[Supersuperleeds]

All you need is a she wee:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Shewee-Extreme-Travel-Accessories/dp/B00KEDCK24

 

[Yazzoo]

Interesting reading - thanks all for the input

I appreciate that efforts are being put in to encourage more women into cycling, I'm just not sure I always agree with them!

I'm a BC member and have received emails and letters from them regarding the breeze events and found them to be incredibly patronising, I don't need events to be based around cake and chatting in coffee shops to find them appealing - in fact it puts me off altogether. I don't find riding with men intimidating or riding on the roads (possibly due to horsey background, always hacking on roads and being close passed!) But I guess this does appeal to some women if it seems to be working? Personally I think things like this tend to enhance the gap between men and women, rather than close it.

FWIW I have a similar problem with our local chamber of commerce. We have networking events and lunches that all can attend, then there's also women only events usually entitled 'Cuppa, Cake and Conversation' or something equally as condescending. I bet if the men wanted to start their own men only group there would be uproar. Segregating into a women only group only serves to encourage the feeling the regular lunches are a bit of an old boys club, the women have their own group where they sit around and eat cake and natter whilst the men do the real business.

 

[steveindenmark]

It would be a good idea for you to set up a womens only cycling group in your area. I would think lots of women would like to bicycle but have not had the opportunity because of all the above concerns.