Windows 11 upgrade, a rant!

[lazybloke]

The barrier to installating Windows 11 on unsupported hardware is no longer "artificial".
The latest major update (24H2) won't boot unless you have the right SSE4.2 instruction set in your CPU.


Theproblem seems to be that Microsoft's hardware compatibility list tends to exclude a few CPUs that DO meet all the requirements!


Probably the Dell laptop would work fine with Windows 11 23H2, and it might even upgrade to 24H2 with a bit of help from one of the installation assistants (eg "Rufus"). Those two options would mean continued security patches to Nov 2025, or sometime in 2027, respectively.
I'd give it a go. Likely the only problem would be finding device drivers.

Worst case scenario is just to leave the laptop on Windows 10 . MS will continue to release security updates for another year.
That'll be over 8 years use from the Dell, which doesn't sound too bad to me. *
Better than all those 5 yr old Macs that went obsolete when Apple launched Mojave.
*Not sure if Dell still issues patches for it?

 

[si_c]

Sadly I think 7 or more years of software updates for a commercial OS is perfectly reasonable and whilst the move to requiring newer processors does leave some cut out there has to be a limit somewhere which will always leave someone unhappy. I appreciate that it does generate e-waste to an extent, but as you noted an installation of Linux can extend the useful life of a device.

There have been a number of hardware based security improvements in the CPU which is not limited to just the TPM chip and likely Microsoft are planning to leverage these, alongside improvements in other aspects of the OS such as media which require newer features such as the SSE4.2 that @lazybloke has already mentioned.

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that a more modern laptop chip will get around 3x the single core and 6x the multi core performance than a 7th gen intel chip. They were very much in the depths of meagre improvement generation to generation at that point with little innovation. Edit to add: and they'll use less power despite being faster.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Mines 13 years old, i3 as well so no chance of W11 working. I've been migrating data from it to external drives in anticipation of this. I'll probably treat myself to a new PC rather than upgrade, the old one I'll keep and maybe have a play with uBunto on it.

 

[Chris S]

My desktop computer is back with the shop just now. It's Windows 8.1 with an i5 chip and the guy was pessimistic about being able to upgrade it. He said anything over 6 years old is basically obsolete.

Switch to Linux. I'm running Xubuntu that originally had Windows 8 installed without any problems.

 

[Drago]

Switch to Linux. I'm running Xubuntu that originally had Windows 8 installed without any problems.

How does that work if your computer skills extend only as far as hitting the ENTER key ever harder when it's not doing what you want it to?

 

[Dadam]

Sadly I think 7 or more years of software updates for a commercial OS is perfectly reasonable and whilst the move to requiring newer processors does leave some cut out there has to be a limit somewhere which will always leave someone unhappy. I appreciate that it does generate e-waste to an extent, but as you noted an installation of Linux can extend the useful life of a device.

I'm going to disagree with you on the reasonable point. I think ten years is a reasonable yardstick these days. The limiting factor used to be performance, the machines might install the latest OS but performance would be terrible. That's much less the case these days.

They should at least do a Windows 10.1 or something. For a stretch in the mid 2010s Win 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 were all in support at the same time.
I had a netbook that came with Win 8 (terrible UI). I upgraded it to 8.1 straight away, then to 10 when that became available as a free upgrade. It ran better with 10 than 8.

I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that a more modern laptop chip will get around 3x the single core and 6x the multi core performance than a 7th gen intel chip. They were very much in the depths of meagre improvement generation to generation at that point with little innovation. Edit to add: and they'll use less power despite being faster.

While that may be true in benchmarks, this laptop really punched above its weight. It always felt snappy, even with a whole load of chrome tabs open. I originally bought it as an ultraportable dev machine, when work were offering BYOD as an option, to supplement the crippled, locked down work machine. It ran virtualisation well too; messed around with a few linux distros in Hyper-V and did some Docker work.

The laptop that has replaced it is a different beast entirely, with a 13th gen i9, 32Gb of DDR5 and an RTX 4070. Weighs "a bit" more mind. In fact the power brick weighs more than the XPS-13!

 

[Dadam]

The barrier to installating Windows 11 on unsupported hardware is no longer "artificial"
The latest major update (24H2) won't boot unless you have the right SSE4.2 instruction set in your CPU.

Artificial in that they chose to mandate support for that instruction set. They had other options.
Those instructions seem to be more about performance. I can't see anything obviously linked to security.

 

[geocycle]

Just had 10 minutes dithering how to log off from windows 11 in front of 200 students. In case you need to know the log off is hidden under Start, of course it is!

 

[Regular.Cyclist]

I'm going to disagree with you on the reasonable point. I think ten years is a reasonable yardstick these days. The limiting factor used to be performance, the machines might install the latest OS but performance would be terrible. That's much less the case these days.

Think yourself lucky that it’s only a laptop, albeit something that cost you a number of hundreds of pounds at the time of purchase.

I’m in the process at work of trying to find funding to replace a medical device that the manufacturer has made obsolete at 7 years old. The sum to replace that is into 6 figures and there’s nothing we can do about it.

 

[albion]

Yes. The TPM requirement meant decent fast laptops become semi obsolete whilst many a junk laptop is fine and still sold.
It is a clever ruse to combat falling sales.

 

[Alex321]

Just had 10 minutes dithering how to log off from windows 11 in front of 200 students. In case you need to know the log off is hidden under Start, of course it is!

As has been the case with every previous version of Windows.

 

[mustang1]

Special offer! Buy this laptop. Comes with Lifetime updates. GUARANTEED!!!

Small print: and by "lifetime", we redefined the word to mean "18 months.". Flexible payment plans are available.

How do these companies get away with redefining words? Grr

 

[Dadam]

Yes. The TPM requirement meant decent fast laptops become semi obsolete whilst many a junk laptop is fine and still sold.
It is a clever ruse to combat falling sales.

It's not the TPM in this case. The TPM is fine, it's just the new instruction sets from the 8th gen cpus

 

[Dadam]

Think yourself lucky that it’s only a laptop, albeit something that cost you a number of hundreds of pounds at the time of purchase.

I’m in the process at work of trying to find funding to replace a medical device that the manufacturer has made obsolete at 7 years old. The sum to replace that is into 6 figures and there’s nothing we can do about it.

Yes, having worked in hospital IT for years in the past I'm aware of these kind of issues. It's no help for you but it's an object lesson in procurement. People never seem to consider the end of life costs and processes when procuring systems. Extracts to feed data migration to new systems. Code access (e.g escrow) if the supplier goes under. It's not in the supplier's interest to help you onto a competitor's product so it needs to be in the contract.

 

[lazybloke]

Artificial in that they chose to mandate support for that instruction set. They had other options.
Those instructions seem to be more about performance. I can't see anything obviously linked to security.

I've done some reading.

That SSE instruction is just one of several hardware capabilities that are needed for a CPU to be approved by MS for Windows 11.
I can't find a definitive list of the requirements, but from a bit of reading it seems to be everything that W10 required, plus the following are now mandated:

A 64 bit memory (no more 32 bit option)
DMA protection : prevents external peripherals gaining unauthorised access to memory
CET : stops malware attacking the CPU "stack"
HVCI : ensures that Windows kernel code is scanned to ensure integrity prior to running
VBS : Memory virtualisation to protect kernal code (increases trust in HVCI)
And more?

Microsoft announced the W11 CPU list way back in the first half of 2021, but no-one actually has to stop using W10 until late 2025, so that's 4 and a half years to plan any necessary hardware replacements.
The Dell XPS in question will be 8 years old by then (the design will actually be 9 years old). Not ideal, but the benefits are significant even if not particularly visible.



As for @Regular.Cyclist's medical device, all operating systems and computers go obsolete. There should be a standard line of questioning about maintenance and upgrades before buying.
I used to work for a cancer diagnostic/therapy equipment manufacturer, and their computers were detatchable/replaceable.


If that's not possible, the machine can probably still be used even if it is obsolete; it's just then a question of how to manage the cybersecurity risk; lots of options available.