Why can't I just do it - Lawyer's lips drive me mad!

[C R]

never heard of them, my bike certainly doesn't have them - but I think it had some annoying washers with a bent tab that somehow was designed to stop the wheel coming out ? anyone know what I am on about ?

My commuter, an old 90's rigid MTB, is like that, had hooked washers but no lips. I put a pair of qr wheels on it when I fixed it up and they are proper quick release at the front and back.

My road bike OTOH has the bleeding things on the front and there's always a couple of minutes of faffing about to get the correct tension every time the wheel comes off.

 

[biggs682]

Except that you've turned a quick release wheel into a non quick release.

I believe the idea came from the USA where some particularly stupid clown forgot to do his Q/R up and scuffed his knee or something. As per usual over there, 50 trillion dollar lawsuits were flying about.

Probably the same idiot who hit something on his Viscount and because the alloy forks came apart they got the name death forks

 

[figbat]

My road bike OTOH has the bleeding things on the front and there's always a couple of minutes of faffing about to get the correct tension every time the wheel comes off.

A couple of minutes? Seriously? If it takes me 30 seconds I have taken my time over it.

They are an insurance policy. One you may never make use of. But that one time you need them you may be grateful of them, as evidenced by some experiences here and elsewhere. Nobody ever sets out to forget to do a skewer up, but distractions happen. And many years of never needing them doesn’t mean you never will.

Mountains out of molehills.

 

[FrankCrank]

Think yourselves lucky. On my collection of old shopper bikes, the lawyers lips are on the inner part of the fork dropout.
After undoing the nuts, you have to prise the forks apart slightly, and then the wheel comes out.
Much easier said than done I can assure you, a definite case of needing a third hand

 

[Marchrider]

My road bike OTOH has the bleeding things on the front and there's always a couple of minutes of faffing about to get the correct tension every time the wheel comes off.

there is something reassuring when the QR tightens as expected you know it has seated correctly. If you have to faff about adjusting the opposing nut, then it could be possible a foreign object to have got between something and you get a false feeling of tightness, so in some ways you may have to be more careful

as for my own bike the forks are a bit tight on the hub and it seems to be a nice convenient snap fit - I once on my little test ride (200 yards) hadn't tightened it up, nothing serious happened but when I did my U-turn i knew something was wrong

 

[figbat]

People keep using the Daily Mail approach to commentary. Add in unnecessary, derogatory words to make something appear more dramatic and contrary than it really is.

There’s no “faffing” involved, you just get on and do it.

 

[fossyant]

Both vintage road bikes never had lawyer lips, but my similar aged MTB did (road bikes were handbuilt and not off the peg). The lips have saved me once when I noticed the QR start to undo - aftermarket QR that looked fancy, but was useless - back to standard Shimano ones.

As for doing a quick wheel swap, I remember just to do 8-10 quick turns of the 'nut', pop the wheel out, replace with a spare, and tighten 8-10 turns (probably only 180 degree turns), and bob's your uncle it works and takes no time.

Through axels are much slower, but they are necessary for disc brake set ups due to the more secure wheel holding.

 

[C R]

People keep using the Daily Mail approach to commentary. Add in unnecessary, derogatory words to make something appear more dramatic and contrary than it really is.

There’s no “faffing” involved, you just get on and do it.

Oh, I do it, but it is a faff. Genuine question, if the lips are necessary, why don't rear dropouts have them?

 

[figbat]

Oh, I do it, but it is a faff. Genuine question, if the lips are necessary, why don't rear dropouts have them?

Because the chances of the rear wheel leaving the ground are lower than the front, and the consequences, whilst still not good, are nowhere near as dire. Plus, the chain will help keep the rear wheel in place somewhat.

 

[craigwend]

Never had a problem with them, adds no more than a few extra seconds for the front fork, historically better than 2 nuts and spanners and probably no longer than 2 chrome wingnuts.

Heck I've even got used to Thru Axles without imploding...

 

[Brandane]

My road bike OTOH has the bleeding things on the front and there's always a couple of minutes of faffing about to get the correct tension every time the wheel comes off.

Pictured below is my solution to that particular non-problem (but yes, if it was a non problem then why did I do it? A moment of OCD while I had a white touch up paint in my hand!).
You will soon know if you are a full turn out. And if you're worried about the cosmetics, put the blob of paint on the underside.
BTW, I am on the side of LL's being no big deal.

 

[Marchrider]

People keep using the Daily Mail approach to commentary. Add in unnecessary, derogatory words to make something appear more dramatic and contrary than it really is.

There’s no “faffing” involved, you just get on and do it.

I appreciate Faffing begins with an "F" but is it really derogatory ? or was it the word Foreign that you found troublesome

my point remains though, if an un-adjusted QR tightens correctly then you know all is well, repairs at the side of the road could easily lead to debris getting between something and causing a false tightness and an insecure wheel

as I said above I had never heard of LawyersLips until this thread, so have never used them - it does strike me though if fitting a wheel and adjusting the QR system in the rain or at night at the side of the road with cars whizzing past - could easily mis-seat the wheel and a potentially dangerous false tightness

 

[figbat]

I appreciate Faffing begins with an "F" but is it really derogatory ? or was it the word Foreign that you found troublesome

my point remains though, if an un-adjusted QR tightens correctly then you know all is well, repairs at the side of the road could easily lead to debris getting between something and causing a false tightness and an insecure wheel

as I said above I had never heard of LawyersLips until this thread, so have never used them - it does strike me though if fitting a wheel and adjusting the QR system in the rain or at night at the side of the road with cars whizzing past - could easily mis-seat the wheel and a potentially dangerous false tightness

The phrase “faffing about” was used subjectively to promote the ‘anti LL’ argument. The sentence works without it but is not as inflammatory or one-sided.

We can propose theoretical “what ifs” ad nauseum. What if a non-LL skewer is knocked or budged during removal or reassembly? What if the same foreign object gets in the way? What if the skewer has stretched? What if the set level of tightness is not the correct level? And so on…

If you use whatever you have correctly then it should all be good. If, for whatever unexpected, unplanned reason, the skewer is left loose, the chances of catastrophic failure are reduced with the retention lips.

 

[craigwend]

I appreciate Faffing begins with an "F" but is it really derogatory ? or was it the word Foreign that you found troublesome

my point remains though, if an un-adjusted QR tightens correctly then you know all is well, repairs at the side of the road could easily lead to debris getting between something and causing a false tightness and an insecure wheel

as I said above I had never heard of LawyersLips until this thread, so have never used them - it does strike me though if fitting a wheel and adjusting the QR system in the rain or at night at the side of the road with cars whizzing past - could easily mis-seat the wheel and a potentially dangerous false tightness

Genuine question, do you have bike/s with quick release and if so is there the possibility they are part of the fork and you've just not realised?

 

[wafter]

I have to say that knowing what they are I have never had any bother with them. Just have to undo the skewer a little after quickly releasing the tension. I’m certainly not about to attack any forks or frames over them.

This set off quite an interesting thought process - I initially thought the same; undoing the skewer a little is no big thing.

Then I came to the realisation that I think every QR-equipped bike I've ever owned has had these "lips", so they're all I've ever known.. and actually, it's bloody irritating not only having to unscrew the QR to get the wheel out, but moreso the trial-and-error required to screw it back to the right place so that it'll cam shut at the right tightness when refitted.

It's probably worse for the already battered paint on the dropouts too as it'll move the serrations on the the nuts on the opposite ends of the QR relative to each other; meaning they'll keep engaging areas of previously undamaged paint when previously they'd probably have just located back into existing damage.

The thought of operating the QR and the wheel just dropping out, then doing exactly the same in reverse to refit seems like absolute luxury by comparison tbh - although I agree about leaving the forks alone.

Through-axles for the win!