Why apostrophes are important

[Melvil]

It's actually not easy once you start thinking about it because daily useage has such a strong effect.

Consider this: "That's me", is what most people would say, simply because it involves the verb to be. Grammatically speaking it should be "That is I". Similarly "It is he" as opposed to "It is him".

Now that I've written this, I've started getting confused myself because the "is" clearly relates to the "that".

I've just thought of another example. You will occasionally here "Those are they" whereas most people would say "that's them" and few of us would find that to be wrong.

A lot of what is held to be correct in English is based on rules which were simply invented in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries by grammarians who took latin as a model because being classical it couldn't be wrong could it. So whereas you definitely can't split an infinitive in latin, there's no earthly reason why you can't in English. I think the worst culprit for all this nonsense was a bloke called Sheridan who offered courses in "correct" English. Correctness being of course, defined by him.

Indeed when children start speaking the english at 1+ years old they tend to construct sentences that are, logically speaking, grammatically correct, but as Andy says above, the grammatical rules of our language are based on a mongrel model of Latin and Saxon and there are many exceptions to logical rules. That's why I find it a bit sad when parents have a go at their kids for 'not speaking right' even though the kid is, in a way, correct.

 

[mr_hippo]

"I were" makes grammatical sense, if you think about it. Why say "you were" but not "I were"? They're both singular personal pronouns after all.

"You" is both singular and plural. The verb 'to be' is irregular. The past tense is:- I was, you were, he/she/it was, we were, you were. they were.

"I' - first person subjective pronoun.
"Me" - first person objective pronoun.

Pronoun usage depends on their position in the sentence - are they the subject or the object?

...you're pointing out you and some friends on a photo to somebody and you say: "That's us", and not "Those are we", which while grammatically logical, just don't [sic] sound right, do [sic] it?

Let's break it down - 'That' refers to the group of people in the photograph. 'is' - verb, 'us' - objective pronoun. So we have subject, verb, object whereas in 'Those are we', there are two subjects 'those' and 'we'.

 

[Haitch]

'us' - objective pronoun.

No, it is a subject complement. It specifies who the subject is. The verb to be does not take an object.

 

[Andy in Sig]

Which was my point.

Oh and Mr H, there's no need for the "sics" as I was trying to make a point humourously.

 

[mr_hippo]

No, it is a subject complement. It specifies who the subject is. The verb to be does not take an object.

The verb 'to be' can be used both as a transitive verb and an intransitive one and therefore could take an object.

 

[Haitch]

The verb 'to be' can be used both as a transitive verb and an intransitive one and therefore could take an object.

The three dictionaries on my desk all say to be is intransitive only. Could you give an example of its transitive use?

 

[Dayvo]

What about 'Toys Я Us! And the spelling; it's back to front! FFS

 

[Andy in Sig]

The three dictionaries on my desk all say to be is intransitive only. Could you give an example of its transitive use?

It's been intransitive in every grammar book I've ever looked in too.

 

[Alan Frame]

Local Ice Hocky team was the Basingstoke Bisons for about five years before they took the "s" off.

Not very catchy, though is it "Baingtoke Bion" ?

 

[Gerry Attrick]

Horse is for hire. Allright, it should have a definite or indefinite article before horse.

Ah yes, I see where you're coming from. Good spin.

 

[Gerry Attrick]

On a similar tune I cringe when I hear locals from Hull talking on television. They say things like, "I were walking down here and I saw....." and just as bad, "..we was watching it......" I feel very sorry for other fans in the premier league when Hull City fans start chanting, "We is Hull, we is Hull" every Saturday afternoon over winter.

Careful CP. I got a roasting on this very forum for a mild "trashing" of Hull. Though I suppose it could have been because I am from t'other side.

 

[graham56]

Careful CP. I got a roasting on this very forum for a mild "trashing" of Hull. Though I suppose it could have been because I am from t'other side.

Well lucky old you

 

[Gerry Attrick]

Whyeye man Graham. I lived in Sunderland for eight years and the same sparring went on up there like with youse lot in Northumberland. Still bought each other a pint though but.

 

[Dayvo]

Careful CP. I got a roasting on this very forum for a mild "trashing" of Hull. Though I suppose it could have been because I am from t'other side.

Did you spit it out?

 

[Gerry Attrick]

Did you spit it out?

Gross-out warning.