who are pavements for?
- Thread starter gavroche
- Start date
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Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
I fully appreciate the hierarchical nature of the law and there is provision for the law to turn a blind eye. That said I see no excuse for Adults to pavement cycle. When people first learn to drive they (usualy) do so on quiet roads. Cyclists should do the same imo. Pavement riding will never equip a cyclist or POB with the skillset required to road cycle. There are many organisations and individuals qualified to teach road craft. If people don't wish to learn and have no confidence on the road I question if they should be riding at all.
I have done. In reality what happens is that it's a very hodge podge process of whatever crops up in terms of development. Sometimes you might get the guiding hand of a plan over multiple processes, but it depends what geographic area you're in within an LA. If you're in another area with few developments it's very much pot luck.
For example on my commute home is a very busy dual carriageway. I and other campaigners have wanted a route along it for years. It'll only come up when a development does, which is now. Many other cities have cycle paths on similar stretches. The odd person cycles along the narrow but almost completely deserted path already. Are people seriously arguing that this is the end of civilisation as we know it, especially as it may get made into a cycle path anyway? Some would even argue it is a waste of my time and effort and council's money making it into a cycle path.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
How dare peds walk on pavements. FYI ignorance of the law is no excuse.
rowan 46
Über Member
- Location
- birmingham
I assume you are joking, in the event you are not. It's up to you to look out for pedestrians, not for for pedestrians to look out for you. I am pretty sure that should a court case result from an incident you will lose. I ride on the pavements occasionally. I know I shouldn't but I am careful, slow and mindful that I am the one who is introducing an element of risk. A pedestrian once stepped into me. I avoided them, stopped and apologised after all I shouldn't have been there in the first place.
ClichéGuevara
Legendary Member
- Location
- Kingston upon the River Hull
If something's illegal rather than unlawful, there are ways of opting out of those bits by something deemed as "lawful rebellion".
I read it expecting war paint and battle cries, but I think it's more a case of getting a form from the Post Office.
I read it expecting war paint and battle cries, but I think it's more a case of getting a form from the Post Office.
In my city one park and a section of pavement generates huge complaints from irate bitter people. The response from the council to the police is please do not prosecute or fine anyone just cycling along there because it is a known junction that has a demonstrable KSI record. The council even tried at various times to have a separate cycle path or cycling allowed, but it was blocked by shouty residents.
There is something to be said of a bit of tough love and trying to coax people onto the roads, but there's no point being too hard with it, you'll very likely get people jacking it in. You get a lot of disagreement about what 'quiet roads' are. People live in different areas, you have to take this into account. I really don't see a problem with pavement cycling on the odd occasion, especially on bits of pavement that imho should be cycle path anyway i.e. there is a need.
MontyVeda
a short-tempered ill-controlled small-minded troll
- Location
- Lancaster... the little city.
[QUOTE 1463279"]
If it's not bothering anyone, then just let them be.
I used to get riled about all kinds of misdemeanours. I'm coming round to Mickle's view of no harm=no problem.
[/quote]
I agree. I expect a cyclist weaving in and out of peds on a pavement to get a fixed penalty notice because they are causing a real nuisance. However if I got an FPN for riding on a completely deserted pavement I'd be furious for two reasons... I'm causing no harm to anyone... haven't the police got better things to do?
If it's not bothering anyone, then just let them be.
I used to get riled about all kinds of misdemeanours. I'm coming round to Mickle's view of no harm=no problem.
[/quote]
I agree. I expect a cyclist weaving in and out of peds on a pavement to get a fixed penalty notice because they are causing a real nuisance. However if I got an FPN for riding on a completely deserted pavement I'd be furious for two reasons... I'm causing no harm to anyone... haven't the police got better things to do?
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Great, I'll get ond that allows me to speed in my car
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
[QUOTE 1463291"]
This is where it gets interesting. Why should any cyclist have to learn to manage aggressive traffic on a busy 40mph dual carriageway when there's a perfectly appropriate wide stretch of tarmac beside it?
I'll ride up the Bristol Road to work, but I wouldn't expect every cyclist I see to have to learn 'the skillset'.
In the ideal world a 3-year-old, a pensioner, a student in flip-flops on a bmx, a parent carrying a child on the bike should be able to ride on the road in safety, with drivers making allowances for him/her. That's never going to happen though.
[/quote]
If there is a wonderful shared access path such as the one you mention then it is a perfect option. Many places are not as advanced as Bristol which is a shame but does not excuse adults who ride on pavements instead of roads.
This is where it gets interesting. Why should any cyclist have to learn to manage aggressive traffic on a busy 40mph dual carriageway when there's a perfectly appropriate wide stretch of tarmac beside it?
I'll ride up the Bristol Road to work, but I wouldn't expect every cyclist I see to have to learn 'the skillset'.
In the ideal world a 3-year-old, a pensioner, a student in flip-flops on a bmx, a parent carrying a child on the bike should be able to ride on the road in safety, with drivers making allowances for him/her. That's never going to happen though.
[/quote]
If there is a wonderful shared access path such as the one you mention then it is a perfect option. Many places are not as advanced as Bristol which is a shame but does not excuse adults who ride on pavements instead of roads.
ClichéGuevara
Legendary Member
- Location
- Kingston upon the River Hull
Great, I'll get ond that allows me to speed in my car
I wondered about that.
I watched a programme about it and the speaker reckoned the basic premise was common law from the Magna Carta, which revolves around causing loss or harm, with any punishment being individual to and reflecting the crime.
It seems we don't strictly exist as individuals but as a separate entity "the person known as", whatever we're registered as, and it's that registered name that is under contract with UK Plc. who seemingly haven't kept their part of the contract, so (by declaration) you can opt to be covered by common law, not statute.
So according to them speeding's okay, but if excess speed (or any othre negligence on your part) is contributory to the accident, you'll end up both physically and financially worse than the victim and their family. I can't help thinking you're entering some other contract by putting a car on the road myself.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Would you be furious if you got a speeding fine whilst driving on an empty streatch of motorway?
ClichéGuevara
Legendary Member
- Location
- Kingston upon the River Hull
Or seeing a length of footpath underused because pedestrians are frightened to walk on it because of the cyclists that hurl up and down it.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
To clarify then. I can get a form, opt out of The Statute of Law and thus be immume to it's power unless I injure another; in which case I am screwed. Is that about right?
rowan 46
Über Member
- Location
- birmingham
to be fair yes I would. I also don't see the problem in riding an empty pavement or crossing a red light on a pelican crossing that is empty because the pedestrian has already crossed. I do however believe in being considerate to other users so If riding on the pavement I slow down and give users a wide berth if it's busy I dismount or don't use the pavement. No harm to anyone, laws are there for a reason the laws on riding on pavements are to protect users. If there aren't any imo they are not applicable. The police however may decide differently and that is part of my personal risk assessement.
