who are pavements for?

[Angelfishsolo]

I dont see how that follows. I applaud anyone i see bending the rules when the rules are ridiculous.
Just as you would encourage cyclists to command their road space (ie - not cycle in the gutter) i dont see why you dont back cyclists who take the initiative at junctions / lights.

One is legal the other is not. Junctions (unless there is a solid white line across them) are not the same as red lights.

 

[apollo179]

One is legal the other is not. Junctions (unless there is a solid white line across them) are not the same as red lights.

Ok ive ammended it to -

I dont see how that follows. I applaud anyone i see bending the rules when the rules are ridiculous.
Just as you would encourage cyclists to command their road space (ie - not cycle in the gutter) i dont see why you dont back cyclists who take the initiative at lights.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Ok ive ammended it to -

I dont see how that follows. I applaud anyone i see bending the rules when the rules are ridiculous.
Just as you would encourage cyclists to command their road space (ie - not cycle in the gutter) i dont see why you dont back cyclists who take the initiative at lights.

One is legal one is not.Cars who take initiative are filmed and uploaded to Youtube and the like but bikes are ok for some reason????

 

[apollo179]

One is legal one is not.

Agreed.
The question therefore is - should we follow the law blindly or should we query the law and think for ourselves. And ultimately when we disagree or do not see the point of a law - do we disobey it?
In this pc age the law is increasing becoming discredited . Where laws are introduced that a large, otherwise law abiding, part of the population dont agree with (and some inevitably break), that is when the law is an ass and the law in general becomes discredited.

 

[d87heaven]

Agreed.
The question therefore is - should we follow the law blindly or should we query the law and think for ourselves. And ultimately when we disagree or do not see the point of a law - do we disobey it?
In this pc age the law is increasing becoming discredited . Where laws are introduced that a large, otherwise law abiding, part of the population dont agree with (and some inevitably break), that is when the law is an ass and the law in general becomes discredited.

So by that argument is speeding ok then? Almost everyone does it.

 

[gaz]

I did not say "going to die" I said a death wish. Look up the meaning of the phrase you will see it means "an (unconscious) urge die". The two are not the same thing at all. You can turn on a light swith with wet hands and 999 times out of a 1000 you will be OK. You still have a death wish.

Deathwish implies that an act is highly dangerous. But a cyclist has control over when they go, if they treat it like a give way line and go when they see it is safe to go then there is no chance of getting hit. And that is what the majority do.
As I said before, using give way lines isn't dangerous?

 

[apollo179]

So by that argument is speeding ok then? Almost everyone does it.

Yes - good point.
Same thing.
Everyone speeds on the motorway.
Speed limit off 70mph = law universally ingnored and law discredited.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Agreed.
The question therefore is - should we follow the law blindly or should we query the law and think for ourselves. And ultimately when we disagree or do not see the point of a law - do we disobey it?
In this pc age the law is increasing becoming discredited . Where laws are introduced that a large, otherwise law abiding, part of the population dont agree with (and some inevitably break), that is when the law is an ass and the law in general becomes discredited.

I think that a large majority of people agree that stopping at red lights is a good idea. Thus your argument falls down. If you feel that strongly why not operate within the law to get the law changed. Write to your MP, get a petition going, get spot son local radio, anything to get public attention that is within the law. <flippancy mode>Or if you hate British law so much, move to another country. </flippancy mode>

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Deathwish implies that an act is highly dangerous. But a cyclist has control over when they go, if they treat it like a give way line and go when they see it is safe to go then there is no chance of getting hit. And that is what the majority do.
As I said before, using give way lines isn't dangerous?

Do the majority do it? Maybe in cities but across the country? I think not.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Yes - good point.
Same thing.
Everyone speeds on the motorway.
Speed limit off 70mph = law universally ingnored and law discredited.

Remember that argument the next time you get a speeding fine

 

[gaz]

Do the majority do it? Maybe in cities but across the country? I think not.

So people in the country just cycle across a red light basically blindfolded? I think not.

 

[apollo179]

I think that a large majority of people agree that stopping at red lights is a good idea. Thus your argument falls down. If you feel that strongly why not operate within the law to get the law changed. Write to your MP, get a petition going, get spot son local radio, anything to get public attention that is within the law. <flippancy mode>Or if you hate British law so much, move to another country. </flippancy mode>

I would say at over half of cyclist ignore lights so thats over half of the cycling population criminalised = law in disrepute.
I can only afford a move to wales so i figure staying put is my best option.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So people in the country just cycle across a red light basically blindfolded? I think not.

People outside of cities seem to obey traffic laws.

 

[d87heaven]

I would argue the point that everyone speeds on the motorway. Lorries are restricted for instance, plus some people just abide by the law as much as they can.
What about speeding in towns? what about speeding on A roads, B roads? Loads of people do it.

What about mobile phone use whilst driving? Loads of people do that as well.

 

[apollo179]

Remember that argument the next time you get a speeding fine

thats partly why i took up cycling - to avoid the madness that surrounds car ownership.