Citius
Guest
May be true uphill - not necessarily true on the flat.
Wheels - where do I begin?
- Thread starter Usehernamegood
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May be true uphill - not necessarily true on the flat.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
I think the problem is, people simply have no idea what sort of time savings are realistic for a given reduction in either weight or drag. The reality is, the gains are generally so small that they are not perceptible.
I have done enough field testing and data gathering now that if the weather forecast is reasonably accurate, using a model, I can typically predict my 10 mile time trial times to within a few seconds (as the distance increases the error also increases, on technical courses, error also increases due to the cornering, but that aside...). Using this model, you can do things such as knock a couple of hundred grams off and estimate how much time it will save you, the time savings for such decreases in weight are so small that they come from unperceptible increases in speed.
Even in extreme cases, like up a steep hill, if you think you can perceive say 10-15 seconds (extreme made up number) worth of speed increase over a 1 mile, >12% climb, you are kidding yourself.
Arjimlad
Tights of Cydonia
- Location
- South Glos
PRs on some segments flowed with no discernible increase in pedalling effort. And my bum can feel that the Shimano wheels are giving a less compliant ride than the CXP33s. I can't explain why. Same tyres, same bike..
vickster
Legendary Member
I didn't buy the Fulcrums for time or weight savings, the wheels really aren't the major impediment here! But I needed wheels for a build and the Fulcrum 5s were the best looking and best reviewed ones for my budget (under £200). However, the white hubs really didn't look good, so I bought another pair with black hubs and put the others on another bike 
(and I offset the cost by selling the old ones which were lightly used)
I'd say only buy new wheels if you need them or want to spend some money on the bike As I said, for the OP, I'd buy a carbon fork first if the bike doesn't have one, but I'm more interested in comfort than speed. The OP wants to treat himself and wheels are a pretty reasonable way of doing that, compared to a groupset or a new bike
(and I offset the cost by selling the old ones which were lightly used)I'd say only buy new wheels if you need them or want to spend some money on the bike
As I said, for the OP, I'd buy a carbon fork first if the bike doesn't have one, but I'm more interested in comfort than speed. The OP wants to treat himself and wheels are a pretty reasonable way of doing that, compared to a groupset or a new bike
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
That sometimes happens to me, then I review the power data or look at the weather data and realise I was either on a bionic day putting out a load of extra power for no increase in perceived effort, or I had a mega tailwind!
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
I didn't buy the Fulcrums for time or weight savings, the wheels really aren't the major impediment here! But I needed wheels for a build and the Fulcrum 5s were the best looking and best reviewed ones for my budget (under £200). However, the white hubs really didn't look good, so I bought another pair with black hubs and put the others on another bike
I'd say only buy new wheels if you need them or want to spend some money on the bike
I think that is fair enough. Even buying the wheels for an increase in performance if fair enough, hell whatever reason, if you want new wheels get them and enjoy them! I guess my point was that there is an associated increase in performance with lighter or more aero equipment and this will be reflected in times, all else being equal, however the gains from single changes are generally so small that aggregated over any distance or duration long enough to provide reasonable resolution in detecting them, they are not perceptible in real time.
Justinslow
Lovely jubbly
- Location
- Suffolk
Ok, over a standard 10 mile TT, what would the difference be in time between using a set of shimano R501's and a set of your expensive TT wheels?
Justinslow
Lovely jubbly
- Location
- Suffolk
Answer - £200 burning a hole in his pocket.
With that money he fancied some new wheels and was asking peoples opinions on what to get.
Did you not read the opening post? I don't recall anybody asking - are they worth it, or will they make me a super dooper rider!
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Given I have no data for the Shimano I can not say, it would be significant at the top end of a TT results sheet yet in real time, it would be unlikely that you would be able to feel it. If it is 30-40 seconds over a 10 mile TT, thats 3-4 seconds per mile.... you will certainly know when you hit the finish line that they have helped since you will get there faster, but moment to moment while riding, you couldn't really tell.
The closest recent comparison I have is riding the same course on my TT bike with normal wheels (if it matters, a Fulcrum R7 in the back, a Pro-Lite Bracciano in the front) and an aero road helmet (LG Course), normal jersey with a bottle in the back pocket (no cage on the bike). Then switching to a disc/trispoke combo, a full TT lid and a speedsuit. I was over 2 minutes faster 2nd time round. The combination of all those gains is certainly perceptable, but any single one alone would be hard to detect in real time.
Edit: It should also be noted that the change of clothing and helmet might well have also resulted in a change of rider position as my tailed helmet gives me head position feedback (I can feel it on my back when I am in the right position and it prompts me to contort myself into a much smaller shape) whereas the road helmet doesn't so my head could have been in a totally different position and I may have neglected to shrug my shoulders in as much and that could also be substantial in terms of drag, especially as I am broad shouldered.
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Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Hmmmm..
Obviously you are calibrated like a machine. That explains it.
Citius
Guest
If that's his only criteria, then just buy any wheels that cost £200.
Justinslow
Lovely jubbly
- Location
- Suffolk
Thanks for your answer, yes my example was a bit vague, but never the less you would expect over 10 miles of similar levels of effort to be quicker on the TT wheels.
Rob3rt
Man or Moose!
- Location
- Manchester
Thanks for your answer, yes my example was a bit vague, but never the less you would expect over 10 miles of similar levels of effort to be quicker on the TT wheels.
Yes, but the point is, at any particular moment, during the ride you wouldn't be able to tell you are going faster, not really. This is contrary to what many people claim they experience when they buy new wheels.
Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Answer - £200 burning a hole in his pocket.
With that money he fancied some new wheels and was asking peoples opinions on what to get.
Did you not read the opening post? I don't recall anybody asking - are they worth it, or will they make me a super dooper rider!
Maybe you need to read the OP's opening post. He said he wanted to upgrade. In other words, his current wheels are no longer satisfactory and he wants to go for something higher up on the scale (of something). Knowing what problem he's trying to solve can help. For instance, if he's entered an Iron Man with a 180km time trial on a windy course or, he's too heavy for his current wheels and keeps on breaking spokes or he wants to switch to tubulars..... See what I'm getting at?
Further, I never stated new wheels will not be worth it or make him a better rider. I think you are stuck in another post in the past. However, hang around and that claim will come up, I'll address it then.
But just imagine if we discover that he doesn't need other wheels and we can save him GBP200. Wouldn't that be something?
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Yellow Saddle
Guru
- Location
- Loch side.
Exactly!
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