Wheel Building - I'm hooked!

[andytheflyer]

There's a much quicker, simpler and more accurate way to eliminate spoke torsion than doing it by feel as the books recommend.

After you have laced the wheel, and before you start tensioning, go around with a dvd marker pen and mark the end of each of the spokes next to the nipple. It only takes a couple of minutes, but once it's done you can remove the torsion by sight instead of feel. Not only is it a more accurate way to remove torsion, but you can accurately see how much adjustment you're making to the spokes as you true the wheel too.

There's a paradox with building wheels. The more you enjoy it the better you're likely to be at it, and the better you are at it the less often you'll have to do it.

Ah - so as you tension up a nipple, you can see if it's twisting the spoke - much simpler than RM's tape flags method. Neat idea. Thx.

 

[presta]

Ah - so as you tension up a nipple, you can see if it's twisting the spoke - much simpler than RM's tape flags method. Neat idea. Thx.

As well as helping with removing torsion, it helps you to tell how much adjustment you've ended up with after you get a spoke that winds up and then suddenly recoils with a loud crack. That still happens with some spokes, even if you grease all the threads before you start. It also enables you to accurately judge increments as small as an eighth of a turn.

 

[S.Giles]

I must admit that I didn't even realise I was twisting the spokes as I was building the wheel. I was expecting some sort of obvious 'feel' to spoke torsion, which I didn't perceive. For that reason, I didn't even attach tape 'flags' to the spokes.

The 'Giles' method of ignoring spoke twist entirely during the build and then riding on tin cans for a few seconds worked out surprisingly well, though:-) It seems that wheel building is quite forgiving in certain respects. I will watch out for spoke twist next time, and be sure to mark the spokes as outlined in the above post.

Thanks for the tip.

Steve

 

[TeeQue]

It's been asked a couple of times but I don't think anyone's answered yet; how does a homebuilt wheel compare to what's available commercially and what is the difference in cost?

 

[procel]

Depends on what comparison you're making! Some homebuilt wheels don't compare at all, because you can't get the same spec commercially. (E.g. the 650B 40H tandem wheelset of mine). Unless by commercially you mean made by a professional wheelbuilder of course. They can make anything and they'll probably do a better job than most amateurs. Price, it depends what you're building. A generic 32H 700C wheelset off the shelf will probably be cheaper or the same price than buying the parts and doing it yourself. As you go upmarket or get more specific, the economics switch.

 

[andytheflyer]

It's been asked a couple of times but I don't think anyone's answered yet; how does a homebuilt wheel compare to what's available commercially and what is the difference in cost?

My Mavic OpenPro rim, Tiagra 4600 hub and DT double-butted s/s spokes cost £85 on line. But.....I don't think there's an exact match available, machine-built. So, it's not easy to compare apples and apples.

I didn't do it for cost reasons - I did it to learn how to build a wheel, and to give me confidence that out somewhere remote, if wheel goes wobbly, I know enough to re-true it to get me home. Sometimes it's not just the cost - it's building your own resourcefulness to get you back to somewhere you'd like to be - not sitting at the roadside with a phone, waiting for a lift, in the rain, and a wasted day. Why does it have to be about the cost?

 

[User6179]

My Mavic OpenPro rim, Tiagra 4600 hub and DT double-butted s/s spokes cost £85 on line. But.....I don't think there's an exact match available, machine-built. So, it's not easy to compare apples and apples.

I didn't do it for cost reasons - I did it to learn how to build a wheel, and to give me confidence that out somewhere remote, if wheel goes wobbly, I know enough to re-true it to get me home. Sometimes it's not just the cost - it's building your own resourcefulness to get you back to somewhere you'd like to be - not sitting at the roadside with a phone, waiting for a lift, in the rain, and a wasted day. Why does it have to be about the cost?

That's quite expensive, you can get the same wheel already built for £71 http://www.davehinde.com/hand-built-wheels.html

This is what is stopping me building my own , the parts cost more than the whole

 

[Teuchter]

That's quite expensive, you can get the same wheel already built for £71 http://www.davehinde.com/hand-built-wheels.html

This is what is stopping me building my own , the parts cost more than the whole

So buy the cheaper wheel, take it to bits then rebuild it... win win!


I bought Musson's ebook a few years ago but haven't built any wheels yet. How does building a wheel on a bike frame compare to using a proper or home made truing stand? I happen to have an old frame in the shed that is of suitable spacings and turning that upside down sounds a lot easier than constructing something out of a load of MDF.

 

[User6179]

So buy the cheaper wheel, take it to bits then rebuild it... win win!


I bought Musson's ebook a few years ago but haven't built any wheels yet. How does building a wheel on a bike frame compare to using a proper or home made truing stand? I happen to have an old frame in the shed that is of suitable spacings and turning that upside down sounds a lot easier than constructing something out of a load of MDF.

I true wheels in the frame with no problems so cant see using an old bike frame to build wheels to be a problem , I might just buy a wheel and dismantle it btw

 

[Spoked Wheels]

Not forgetting that rims are not built equal and they are not perfect by any means.

I know this to be true, even from my experience of building one wheel. The cheapo rims I bought looked great on Ebay, but were not totally round, having a slight 'hump' where the joint is. There was nothing I could do to correct the problem, and it complicated the build considerably, because the spokes in that area tightened-up quicker than the others. I had to come up with an on-the-fly method of compensating for this, and had to accept a compromise in radial trueness.

The good news is that the wheel works, the slight 'bump' cannot be felt when riding, and the wheel has not changed its shape during the first 200 miles or so of use.

I wouldn't buy cheap rims again, though. It's Mavic for me next time, I think. You live and learn.

Steve

Even with Mavic you'll find that the rims are not perfect at the join. What you did, doing the best you can it's what RM recommends. The little bump would not be noticed.

There's a much quicker, simpler and more accurate way to eliminate spoke torsion than doing it by feel as the books recommend.

After you have laced the wheel, and before you start tensioning, go around with a dvd marker pen and mark the end of each of the spokes next to the nipple. It only takes a couple of minutes, but once it's done you can remove the torsion by sight instead of feel. Not only is it a more accurate way to remove torsion, but you can accurately see how much adjustment you're making to the spokes as you true the wheel too.

There's a paradox with building wheels. The more you enjoy it the better you're likely to be at it, and the better you are at it the less often you'll have to do it.

I haven't tried your technique and I have to say what RM works quite well for me. The only little trick that RM doesn't mention is once the spoke has some tension then you turn and then go back a bit. Having said that, stressing the spokes is a must and I do that several times until I'm happy with the final product. I also like to add that thin spokes like 1.5 twist a lot more than 1.8.

If the rider is heavy, 17+ stones and you don't hear any pings then you have done a good job, on the other hand, a light rider getting a ping sound then I'd say you need to improve your technique.

 

[ushills]

That's quite expensive, you can get the same wheel already built for £71 http://www.davehinde.com/hand-built-wheels.html

This is what is stopping me building my own , the parts cost more than the whole

For me I built a wheel with a hub dynamo and rim that was not available off the shelf, I could have had it built for me but it was cheaper to do it myself and when the rim needs replacing I will be able to do it myself.

The wheels are still true after two years and I did not experience this with machine built wheels beforehand.

 

[S.Giles]

RM recommends cutting two spokes down to exactly 200mm to make an ERD-measuring tool. Here's a way I found of getting a clean cut that may be of use to someone somewhere.

The problem for me was not having a workshop or vise to hold the spokes whilst hacksawing them accurately to length. I got over the problem by dismantling a (UK) three-pin mains plug and using one of the brass terminals (specifically, the screw and hole in it) as a clamp. The terminal is set to the correct position on the spoke and the screw tightened prior to cutting it to length. This made it easy to get the length right.

Steve

 

[I like Skol]

Just about to order spokes to rebuild 3 wheels.

Wheel 1 is on my road bike that is only a couple of years old but has had a dodgy formula hub with pitted cones almost from day 1 of ownership. I have a tiagra4600 hub to match the rear and while I could use the existing plain gauge stainless steel spokes (not sure what brand but they have an italic capital R on the head?) for the rebuild I am going to buy some DT competition spokes. If the job is worth doing it's worth doing right .

The other 2 wheels are off my sons 'vintage' 1991 Raleigh road bike and are the original wheels still in perfect condition rim and hub wise but the spokes are terribly tarnished rustless items that are all at different tensions and some have been replaced in the past. When some started to come loose on a training ride we did the other week I decided it was time to renovate them as I have always intended to do. The rims and hubs will get a service and then be polished to within an inch of their life before being laced up with competition spokes. The result should be a period set of wheels that looks like new.

Swiss DT D/B S/S spokes and nipples for 3 x 32 spoke wheels for around £36 inc (EDIT: +£7.60) delivery from Rose Bikes

I spent a couple of hours taking out spokes yesterday to measure lengths and then replacing and retrueing the wheels to run while I am waiting.

 

[I like Skol]

Just a quick update on my addiction........
Stripped a 20+ yr old wheel a week or two back then have been dead busy until tonight when I got some time to get busy with rags and brasso....

Went from this

To this (I know one is front and the other a rear but it is the same wheel set)

I serviced the hub and the internals are like new. The rim is also like new once the light brake surface scoring has polished out. The eyelets are actually brass and have cleaned up a treat. Can hardly wait to get some spokes laced in now

 

[I like Skol]

Perhaps this shows the change better?