What makes you visible on the road (at night)

[srw]

No I don't.

Hiviz colours are most noticeable of all

I say that light colours, and especially Hiviz colours are very noticeable under sodium lighting. Mike says that Hiviz turns into a washed-out dull colour, implicitly not noticeable at all.

(We've got previous...)

 

[BentMikey]

It's not nonsense, it's what actually happens to hiviz under urban lighting. What's more, that opinion is confirmed by many other cyclists, so you're the odd one out, srw.

Even if hiviz was as effective as your best hopes would have it be, it still has no real effect on your safety in an urban situation. At least an order of magnitude less effect than that of proper road positioning and legal bike lights and reflectors.

 

[BentMikey]

That's a Ronhill hiviz gilet - it's the same colour as the road under sodium lighting. It'll probably show up OK against a dark background, but the problem in the urban environment is that many surfaces are reflecting yellow sodium streetlight, and that's where the fluo part simply blends in. There's no UV light, so the fluo doesn't flouresce as it does in daylight.

I think you have a basic misunderstanding of the design of hiviz and how it works.

 

[summerdays]

But shouldn't you be comparing it to what many cyclists wear - black, without reflection etc.... in comparison its going to be more visible than black. Yes it does come lower than lights and road position but it still is better than black clothing.

 

[BentMikey]

Actually, I think black might have more contrast in the above photo. That's probably why so many people complain about seeing ninja cyclists all the time, and never worry once about the ones they didn't see.

 

[gbb]

Are we talking yellow flouro clothing, or the hi viz 'workwear' with refective bands or piping. The reflective bands can be seen way way before the yellow fluoro. It sticks out from bloody miles away...brilliant.

Another thing i saw t'other night...a guy riding along with flashing LED bands (velcro'd on i guess)on each lower leg. Not pretty, but very very effective. Lots of movement with his legs..and from the flashing LEDs. Lidls or the like perhaps. Havnt seen them in shops myself...

 

[SoulOnIce]

I'm no expert but I think people are arguing for the sake of it. I reckon any fool can see to be visible (and safe) at night you need:

- good quality lights (more than one rear light, not least cos you are not always aware if one fails!)
- a decent amount of reflective items that are in places that will pick up in car headlights
- a good road position

The rest of the colour of your clothing (at night) does not matter as much as the other three items.

 

[BentMikey]

I'm no expert but I think people are arguing for the sake of it. I reckon any fool can see to be visible (and safe) at night you need:

- good quality lights (more than one rear light, not least cos you are not always aware if one fails!)
- a decent amount of reflective items that are in places that will pick up in car headlights
- a good road position

The rest of the colour of your clothing (at night) does not matter as much as the other three items.

I agree - my point is that a) it's fun to argue about hiviz, but it's utterly pointless because the effects of clothing are at least one or two orders of magnitude less important than the points you made. I would probably change the order to a good road position first, followed by lights, followed by BS std reflectors, though.

 

[BentMikey]

Are we talking yellow flouro clothing, or the hi viz 'workwear' with refective bands or piping. The reflective bands can be seen way way before the yellow fluoro. It sticks out from bloody miles away...brilliant.

Yes, that's right, something else srw got wrong in that even dipped headlights are usually plenty to make above the waist retro-reflectives stand out. Of course the reflectives are utterly useless if, for example a car is at a minor side road, and you're riding along the major road. There are no lights nearby the driver's eyes shining towards your reflectives, so the driver won't see those reflectives.

 

[gbb]

Yes, that's right, something else srw got wrong in that even dipped headlights are usually plenty to make above the waist retro-reflectives stand out. Of course the reflectives are utterly useless if, for example a car is at a minor side road, and you're riding along the major road. There are no lights nearby the driver's eyes shining towards your reflectives, so the driver won't see those reflectives.[/QUOTE]


As always, nothings 100% effective. Refelctives are brilliant 95 % of the time, but what BentMikeys saying is correct.
One evening i was riding along an unlit road, approaching a side junction. I had good lights and hiviz with reflective bands. The berk nearly ran me over as he joined the road from the junction, despite all my lighting and reflectives. But as BM states, reflectives are only any good if the driver has them in his lights...and in my case, they were'nt in his lights until the last second, just when its too late.
But its still worth remembering, 95% of the time, reflectives will be seen from afar.

 

[BentMikey]

And of course where do most accidents happen? At junctions where it's much more likely that their lights aren't pointing your way, not along the straightaways where they can see you perfectly easily with or without reflectives.

What I dislike is the number of posts with people indignantly talking about their HiViz and how the driver couldn't possibly miss seeing them, and yet they did. It's obvious they are placing far too much trust in their hiviz, when it's their own roadcraft they need to be focusing on. In general, too much effort is spent around hiviz and helmets, and far too little on good riding and traffic skills which can easily have a hundred times the effect on one's safety.

 

[SoulOnIce]

BentMikey is right about riding skills. As a car driver I know how easy it is to miss cyclists. So I ride at every junction car assuming car driver has not seen me until I have established they actually have seen me.

 

[Tynan]

a rider riding in the dark with dark clothes and no lights or reflectives can ride anywhere he likes, he's still very very hard to see indeed, really not sure that position etc is the most important thing, I'll agree it's important

I think every serious accident I've had has been a car turning across me, always in broad daylight and me in primary, go figure

been some near misses in the dark, sure

 

[tyred]

A big part of the problem is that with some motorists, even if they see a cyclist, they think they have the right of way at all times. The majority of near misses I've had have been in broad daylight. Completely unrelated to visibility but I had a huge scare on Sunday afternoon when the roads were a bit icy in places, someone lost control of a Toyota Corolla coming round a corner towards me and went up the road sideways, just missing me by about a foot or so.

 

[srw]

Yes, that's right, something else srw got wrong in that even dipped headlights are usually plenty to make above the waist retro-reflectives stand out.

No they're not. Just use your eyes and ditch your knee-jerk aversion to bright clothing.

Case in point. I was cycling home last night through central London behind someone who was wearing light-coloured clothing, with a reflective band around the waist. The reflective band was completely and utterly unlit. The light-coloured clothing was clearly visible.

Dipped headlights are designed not to shed a material amount of light upwards, so they cannot possibly illuminate anything at all upwards until the vehicle is so close to the rider that there's no time to react. I want to be visible from 50 yards away, not 5 - and that means cycling in my usual positive manner, displaying a bright light and wearing something pale. I am then clearly visible in bog-standard street lighting. If someone's badly-adjusted headlights happen to catch the reflective band on my hiviz vest that's a bonus.

(edit)
PS - the usual moans about the tiny minority of drivers who don't look go without saying. But as cunobelin's anecdote illustrates some drivers won't look even if you're wearing a Christmas tree.