What is your watt/kg ratio?

[Bill Gates]

1) Example: you're on a turbo and trying to maintain a constant effort for say 1 hour. Your turbo is subject to drift as it heats up and your HR will also drift so how exactly can you tell if you are maintaining a constant effort (power) or if your effort is actually slowly falling off through the hour? You can use RPE and probably (if you are an experienced rider) get it just about right, but RPE is subjective. Power is an objective measure of your effort.

2) You retest your FTP regularly.

3) If you analyse your power data from the race and you have put out a bigger sustained power than your latest FTP test suggest should be possible then you should either use the FTP inferred from the race (if possible) or you retest your FTP.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that training with power is the secret to instant success, but it is a tool that (unlike RPE and HR) allows you to objectively and accurately determine your training zones and pace your efforts. To do well in races you still need to do the training miles and you still need to work on different aspects (not just trying to improve FTP) and you still need to acquire the tactical knowledge, but to me there's little doubt that training with power is superior to training using subjective measures.

You're assuming that a rate of effort in training has to be right on the button to be effective. But it isn't. Training within a zone is enough for any particular improvement to occur for that level of effort be it endurance, LT or VO2max.

When you're training LT then I allow for cardiac drift on my HRM. I also use a cadence meter and speed readout on my computer to show level of effort. You do know of course that as you get fitter then you go faster for a given level of HR. Therefore using your HR is a more accurate way of establishing LT as it is self correcting. Constantly having to re-test your FTP is a nonsense for training purposes. I'm totally unconcerned about the the turbo heating up and affecting anything substantially BTW.

You should know as an experienced racing cyclist that during a race your effort fluctuates with the terrain, also in a Time Trial it is beneficial to be conservative at the start and then wind the effort up during the race so that by the end of the TT you are on the limit. Without an innate sense of RPE learned in training then you will lose time.

Focus totally on training with power and you'll be in danger of trying to beat yesterday's numbers and burn yourself out.

 

[amaferanga]

You're assuming that a rate of effort in training has to be right on the button to be effective. But it isn't. Training within a zone is enough for any particular improvement to occur for that level of effort be it endurance, LT or VO2max.

When you're training LT then I allow for cardiac drift on my HRM. I also use a cadence meter and speed readout on my computer to show level of effort. You do know of course that as you get fitter then you go faster for a given level of HR. Therefore using your HR is a more accurate way of establishing LT as it is self correcting. Constantly having to re-test your FTP is a nonsense for training purposes. I'm totally unconcerned about the the turbo heating up and affecting anything substantially BTW.

You should know as an experienced racing cyclist that during a race your effort fluctuates with the terrain, also in a Time Trial it is beneficial to be conservative at the start and then wind the effort up during the race so that by the end of the TT you are on the limit. Without an innate sense of RPE learned in training then you will lose time.

Focus totally on training with power and you'll be in danger of trying to beat yesterday's numbers and burn yourself out.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, but by using cadence/speed on your turbo you do know that you are using a proxy for power to gauge your efforts? A much cheaper, but also much less reliable alternative unfortunately.

I'm a firm believer in not knocking something until you at least know a little about it.

 

[Bill Gates]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, but by using cadence/speed on your turbo you do know that you are using a proxy for power to gauge your efforts? A much cheaper, but also much less reliable alternative unfortunately.

Have you taken in anything I've posted at all?

I'm a firm believer in not knocking something until you at least know a little about it.

What do you know about racing TT's then? Ever raced one?

 

[Garz]

Keep it sensible please fella's.

 

[jimboalee]

Keep it sensible please fella's.

Naaa...

 

[jimboalee]

Naaa...

Please note. The BSO has it's forks the WRONG way round. Must come from Halus Fordius.

 

[Bill Gates]

What do you know about racing TT's then? Ever raced one?

So you're training with power (for the first time) to train for racing (for the first time), and you accuse me of knocking something I know nothing about.

 

[amaferanga]

So you're training with power (for the first time) to train for racing (for the first time), and you accuse me of knocking something I know nothing about.

I'm sure you know much, much more about racing and training than me, which is why training with power is IMO more useful to me than RPE and HR since I don't have many years of experience (racing that is - I've been riding bikes for a long time) to fall back on.

 

[Garz]

So you're training with power (for the first time) to train for racing (for the first time), and you accuse me of knocking something I know nothing about.

Arguing with yourself again Bill?

 

[davidg]

Drago v Rocky

one guy has state of the art, another chops up logs...

 

[Bill Gates]

Drago v Rocky

one guy has state of the art, another chops up logs...

And you are a spectator, a pathetic noneity in the crowd, wanting to be part of the action but lacking the moral courage, strength of character, knowledge or experience to contribute to what is a decent debate.

I respect ameraferanga for his views and his willingness to debate them openly but despise those who think a decent contribution is creating a laugh at others expense.

 

[Bill Gates]

I'm sure you know much, much more about racing and training than me, which is why training with power is IMO more useful to me than RPE and HR since I don't have many years of experience (racing that is - I've been riding bikes for a long time) to fall back on.

OK. To be honest if you've invested in the technology then you are already motivated to improve your fitness and if you follow the various training sessions designed to get you to peak fitness over time then it will be money well spent.

In other words in your position it can only be of benefit. I can see that for some riders knowing the numbers and seeing them improve can be motivational enough without ever getting to the stage of entering a race.

It is worth keeping tabs on your HR though and if you don't feel up to doing or completeing a session then stop. Once you find it too hard to keep the effort going then carrying on will take away rather than contribute to your progress. Good Luck!

 

[lukesdad]

I've just bought a power meter and haven't yet got round to doing any testing (I've had a stinking cold since the day before it arrived ) so I don't have any figures.

You might find this spreadsheet on Power profiling interesting.

If I were you I d worry less about your power meter, and more about your diet and recovery and cut out the colds. You could then do some training instead of talking about it.

£800 thats nearly 40 race entries..... More money than sense some people

 

[amaferanga]

If I were you I d worry less about your power meter, and more about your diet and recovery and cut out the colds. You could then do some training instead of talking about it.

£800 thats nearly 40 race entries..... More money than sense some people

Thanks for the advice, but there's nothing wrong with my diet and I don't get colds frequently (as you seem to be suggesting).

£800 is less than some people spend on a pair of wheels and certainly a lot less than some people spend on bikes so I don't think its excessive.

 

[lukesdad]

A set of decent wheels or, for that matter a better bike would give you a marked improvement in your performance. Shame the same can t be said about power meters.