What is your watt/kg ratio?

[GrasB]

Power meters are, apparently, rather useful in TTs were,due to training with one, you can instantly know if you're over doing it or not. Or so I've been told, having never used one let alone used one in a TT I have no idea.

 

[Bill Gates]

sounds like a response from someone who doesn't put out much power

Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows or cares? I don't.

 

[Bill Gates]

Power meters are, apparently, rather useful in TTs were,due to training with one, you can instantly know if you're over doing it or not. Or so I've been told, having never used one let alone used one in a TT I have no idea.

All other things being equal, a rider in a TT will increase power going up inclines and descrease power going down. The how much you increase power by so that the rider does not overcook it cannot be measureable, as climbs have different lengths and steepness.

On a pan flat road then the power output might be relevant if you know what you can do for 20 minutes or an hour on a turbo, but a turbo is altogther different from the road and in a race adrenaline kicks in to increase your effort.

I can see that the average power readings could be useful to analyse later, but by then it's too late for the race you've just done. In a race HR and power readings are irrelevant because the chances are that due to preparation and adrenaline you will be beating figures from training sessions.

Let's say that I know that I can sustain a power reading of 300 watts for an hour. How will this assist me in my training?

 

[gaz]

If you go to a gym, some of the machines in there will measure power(the ones in my gym have a power option if you press a button marked perosnal trainer a number of times to get to it) but I guess its brand specific, the machines in my gym are made by "Life Fitness", also I dont know how it reflects vs riding on a real bike.

What is this gym you speak off?

 

[amaferanga]

All other things being equal, a rider in a TT will increase power going up inclines and descrease power going down. The how much you increase power by so that the rider does not overcook it cannot be measureable, as climbs have different lengths and steepness.

On a pan flat road then the power output might be relevant if you know what you can do for 20 minutes or an hour on a turbo, but a turbo is altogther different from the road and in a race adrenaline kicks in to increase your effort.

I can see that the average power readings could be useful to analyse later, but by then it's too late for the race you've just done. In a race HR and power readings are irrelevant because the chances are that due to preparation and adrenaline you will be beating figures from training sessions.

Let's say that I know that I can sustain a power reading of 300 watts for an hour. How will this assist me in my training?

So your knocking something you seem to know nothing about?

Books have been written on training with power so if you're genuinely interested then you might want to get hold of one. But to briefly answer your question - if you know you can hold 300W for an hour then your FTP is 300W. You can then use that number to set your training zones accordingly to target different systems, in the same way that people use HR and RPE, but without much of the guesswork due to e.g. cardiac drift.

There's much more to the analysis of power than just the average. Again, books have been written on this so I won't attempt to explain here.

I'm very new to training wit power, but to me at the moment it will allow me to track improvement and see the (hopefully) positive effects of my training.

 

[Bill Gates]

So your knocking something you seem to know nothing about?

Books have been written on training with power so if you're genuinely interested then you might want to get hold of one. But to briefly answer your question - if you know you can hold 300W for an hour then your FTP is 300W. You can then use that number to set your training zones accordingly to target different systems, in the same way that people use HR and RPE, but without much of the guesswork due to e.g. cardiac drift.

There's much more to the analysis of power than just the average. Again, books have been written on this so I won't attempt to explain here.

I'm very new to training wit power, but to me at the moment it will allow me to track improvement and see the (hopefully) positive effects of my training.

Same as LT. You can use HR and RPE in training quite successfully. You don't have to be so accurate as to train right on the LT button but within a zone is OK. Also RPE and HR take fatigue and health into account as you wouldn't want to push yourself when going too hard could knock you back.

RPE is the safest and best way to pace yourself, and if you want to race that way then you should train that way.

You're all hope and prayer, and I'm completely unconvinced, and considerably better off financially for not buying what I think is the "emperor's new clothes".

 

[plank]

If the opportunity to get a reading came up why would you not want one?

 

[Will1985]

Luddite!

 

[amaferanga]

Same as LT. You can use HR and RPE in training quite successfully. You don't have to be so accurate as to train right on the LT button but within a zone is OK. Also RPE and HR take fatigue and health into account as you wouldn't want to push yourself when going too hard could knock you back.

RPE is the safest and best way to pace yourself, and if you want to race that way then you should train that way.

You're all hope and prayer, and I'm completely unconvinced, and considerably better off financially for not buying what I think is the "emperor's new clothes".

I can tell already that you're at least 60 years old and still use downtube shifters

Seriously though, invest £8 in the book Racing and Training with a Power Meter by Allen and Coggan and then you might understand why power is BETTER than RPE and HR for pacing and training.

 

[jimboalee]

Here he comes….

Why do you need to know your power output while you are riding?

For a start, you don’t need a power meter to get an idea of your ability.
You need a hill and a speed measurement. Rolldown test, as previously described in an earlier episode ( here’s one I made earlier ).

In practicality, on a 5 hour stage in a multi stage Roadrace, the riders need to know when to eat, drink ( and make merry )…
The riders will have done all the test work in a wind tunnel, on a track and up some hills; and the team coach will evaluate the route to see where the long flat sections are and where the hills are. He will make an estimation of the rider’s calorific consumption - which is directly related to Watts – and with the team’s nutritionalist, instruct the riders when to gulp down the energy drink and Mars Bars.

The riders, after miles and miles of riding and testing – cus it’s their job – will know if they are strong enough to climb up the mountain, or go on a lone breakaway.

The team’s nutritionalist will know how much energy drink – cus it’s his job – and pass the bidons to the domestiques and command them to give the bidons to the star riders. No need for the star riders to remember when to feed. They are waited upon.

I think what Bill is going to say next is PowerTap et al, is a sales hype to extract money from the unwitting.

It was fifteen years ago when I strapped my bike to a dynamometer. All in the name of ‘getting through a Rando 300 without bonking’….

Of course it is interesting to know one's specifics, but a £800 piece of kit is not necessary.

 

[plank]

well, to be honest the reason I posted is I wanted to beat someone on the internet. If you haven't got a reading could you make one up that significantly less than mine? I would also feel better if you weighed a lot less too. Thanks!

edit: if you do make one up you need to pretend its real.

 

[Bill Gates]

The only valid arguments put forward in favour so far are to measure improvement to know if training is working and to accurately establish training zones. Both of which are true. But do you NEED it?

Any experienced rider will instinctively know training zones from RPE and how to improve fitness without having to measure it along the way. As a TT rider I'm fully aware of the importance of reducing drag and will happily use the latest technology etc. to facilitate that goal. Luddite I'm not.

I may not be fast now but used to be able to hold almost 30 mph on a road bike for 10 miles and won numerous open TT's at all distances up to 100 miles so should know how to reach my full potential.

 

[davidg]

yeah, but did you win them with the right power?!

 

[Bill Gates]

I've had this debate before and ended up getting the same old name calling, slurs on my character and unfunny (meant to be funny) comments. Typical tactics employed by those who are unable to contend with the basic truths.

1) RPE and HR reflect how you feel, which in turn reflects your current levels of fatigue and health and should take precedence over any pre-determined level of training intensity with power.

2) Your FTP or whatever sustainable power number you choose is a moving target as you get fitter or lose fitness so how can this be accurate for measuring training zones?

3) Knowing your current sustainable training power is only relevant to your performance on that day and could well be bettered on race day with better preparation and the adrenaline you get from racing.

I find it amusing when I read or hear what power a rider can generate. I'm more interested in did they win and that takes a combination of technique, endurance, speed, strength and will power. Train for all of those and the power looks after itself.

 

[amaferanga]

I've had this debate before and ended up getting the same old name calling, slurs on my character and unfunny (meant to be funny) comments. Typical tactics employed by those who are unable to contend with the basic truths.

1) RPE and HR reflect how you feel, which in turn reflects your current levels of fatigue and health and should take precedence over any pre-determined level of training intensity with power.

2) Your FTP or whatever sustainable power number you choose is a moving target as you get fitter or lose fitness so how can this be accurate for measuring training zones?

3) Knowing your current sustainable training power is only relevant to your performance on that day and could well be bettered on race day with better preparation and the adrenaline you get from racing.

I find it amusing when I read or hear what power a rider can generate. I'm more interested in did they win and that takes a combination of technique, endurance, speed, strength and will power. Train for all of those and the power looks after itself.

1) Example: you're on a turbo and trying to maintain a constant effort for say 1 hour. Your turbo is subject to drift as it heats up and your HR will also drift so how exactly can you tell if you are maintaining a constant effort (power) or if your effort is actually slowly falling off through the hour? You can use RPE and probably (if you are an experienced rider) get it just about right, but RPE is subjective. Power is an objective measure of your effort.

2) You retest your FTP regularly.

3) If you analyse your power data from the race and you have put out a bigger sustained power than your latest FTP test suggest should be possible then you should either use the FTP inferred from the race (if possible) or you retest your FTP.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that training with power is the secret to instant success, but it is a tool that (unlike RPE and HR) allows you to objectively and accurately determine your training zones and pace your efforts. To do well in races you still need to do the training miles and you still need to work on different aspects (not just trying to improve FTP) and you still need to acquire the tactical knowledge, but to me there's little doubt that training with power is superior to training using subjective measures.