What I can see in my NS truck mirrors.

[classic33]

OK; if the location is as blind as you describe, then the driver should be employing the services of a banksman (basically a look-out) as he backs out. Drivers do this all the time - it could be the guy from the Co-Op loading bay or any member of the Co-Op staff. I have even just commandeered a passing member of public on occasions, and prayed that they possessed a certain amount of common sense.

I got into trouble for refusing to see a driver out onto the road at work. He ignored any & all signals given, preferring to rely on his vehicle to get him out. He's taken out bollards on the pavement, two lamp posts & one pedsestrian. He wasn't to blame for something that he knew was there but chose to ignore.
Pedestrian ended up on the ground almost under the lorry, me, I ended up with one sore arm from where I damaged the side of the lorry hitting it to try and get his attention. They don't let him drive it anymore, can't work out why though.

 

[Sara_H]

I got into trouble for refusing to see a driver out onto the road at work. He ignored any & all signals given, preferring to rely on his vehicle to get him out. He's taken out bollards on the pavement, two lamp posts & one pedsestrian. He wasn't to blame for something that he knew was there but chose to ignore.
Pedestrian ended up on the ground almost under the lorry, me, I ended up with one sore arm from where I damaged the side of the lorry hitting it to try and get his attention. They don't let him drive it anymore, can't work out why though.

You're very naughty. I'm telling on you in tea!

 

[stowie]

Next time a transport manager hands me the keys of an artic, along with a pile of delivery notes and tells me to go into several different town centres and deliver pallets of goods to shops where greedy consumers wait to buy said goods as cheaply as possible, I must try that line. "But.... but.... boss; cyclists and car drivers don't like us being in town centres. Can't I drop the stuff off at a motorway services and you can get a fleet of vans to take it the rest of the way?"

"Aye no problem driver, pick up your P45 on the way out!".

Bottom line is, we, the consumers, demand goods in the shops to be available, and to be available cheaper than anywhere else. That means that everything is done as cheaply as possible, from being manufactured in sweat-shops in the far east, to being delivered by an artic rather than several vans. Reason being is quite simple; cost.

Paris and Dublin have hugely stringent restrictions on HGVs in their cities. I cannot say that either city has empty shops last time I went there. The business model for transport - like everything else - evolves from the conditions which are imposed upon it. Legislation on HGVs or on heavy contruction vehicles would simply change the model to become as efficient as possible under new legislation. The people who lose out are actually those making money under the existing conditions, demand for goods will be serviced in new ways but that might be bad news for those relying on the old conditions.

 

[Brandane]

Paris and Dublin have hugely stringent restrictions on HGVs in their cities. I cannot say that either city has empty shops last time I went there. The business model for transport - like everything else - evolves from the conditions which are imposed upon it. Legislation on HGVs or on heavy contruction vehicles would simply change the model to become as efficient as possible under new legislation. The people who lose out are actually those making money under the existing conditions, demand for goods will be serviced in new ways but that might be bad news for those relying on the old conditions.

Yep; noticed that in Paris. IIRC they do all their store deliveries during the night? That could work in our cities, but would obviously entail having staff at the shops to receive the goods. Something that they don't have in most cases just now. The drivers are already in place; a large proportion of HGV drivers already do night shifts. That is when the vast majority of trunking between distribution centres, docks, airports, etc. goes on. Strangely enough, that's because the roads are so much quieter at night, so less fuel and drivers time is wasted sitting in jams on our inadequate motorway network. Take a drive on any major motorway at 2am and you'll see what I mean.

 

[classic33]

You're very naughty. I'm telling on you in tea!

They already know, Hill Wimp spilt the beans.

What good is it having someone seeing the driver back if he choses to ignore the signals given to him. The knocking down of the pedestrian wasn't what got me into trouble. It was the damage I did to the side of the van trying to get him to stop.

 

[snorri]

It's odd that dangers faced by ordinary people of all ages and degrees of health and fitness on our roads and streets have been outlawed in the workplace.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg199.pdf

 

[Sara_H]

It's odd that dangers faced by ordinary people of all ages and degrees of health and fitness on our roads and streets have been outlawed in the workplace.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg199.pdf

I read a quote recently that said if cars and lorries hadn't yet been invented, and were invented tomorrow, the idea of allowing them on the oads wouldn't be entertained on H&S grounds.

 

[PeteXXX]

And there was me thinking that by posting a picture of what can be seen in my nearside mirrors might just possibly aid understanding of an issue, and maybe keep people safer near trucks.

 

[classic33]

@PeteXXX,
You started this with the best of intentions, however some decided to turn it into a slanging match. For that you can not be held responsible.
You can at least look people in the face & tell them "At least I tried."

 

[stowie]

Yep; noticed that in Paris. IIRC they do all their store deliveries during the night? That could work in our cities, but would obviously entail having staff at the shops to receive the goods. Something that they don't have in most cases just now. The drivers are already in place; a large proportion of HGV drivers already do night shifts. That is when the vast majority of trunking between distribution centres, docks, airports, etc. goes on. Strangely enough, that's because the roads are so much quieter at night, so less fuel and drivers time is wasted sitting in jams on our inadequate motorway network. Take a drive on any major motorway at 2am and you'll see what I mean.

I believe deliveries are made at night, or that the reloading of goods into smaller vehicles - which are less restricted - is more attractive due to the legislation.

I guess my point is that our status quo on the roads has been arrived at through a mixture of demand, historical practices, and legislation. It is not the only solution by a long way, and may actually not be the most efficient method anyway. For instance restricting HGVs in the day but allowing them at night might actually save haulage firms money as you say. The biggest losers when the status quo is changed will be those currently profiting. Demand will be serviced, but change normally causes the incumbents pain and favours new ventures so the incumbents will tend to lobby and oppose any change at all.

Anyway, ultimately, it is construction vehicles which seem to present the most danger to cyclists in London at least. The question I would like to ask is "why"? Are construction vehicles simply more numerous on our roads, or less well driven, or more difficult to see around?

 

[PeteXXX]

@PeteXXX,
You started this with the best of intentions, however some decided to turn it into a slanging match. For that you can not be held responsible.
You can at least look people in the face & tell them "At least I tried."

Such is life, cheers

 

[swansonj]

Come on give it a serious go, what makes it mad?

I choose not to filter up the inside of a large lorry, even if it is stationary and I can see the lights are red, because I figure that if I do it a hundred times a year, a thousand times in a lifetime's cycling, the odds are too high that in just 0.1% of cases I will have misjudged the situation. I'm sure there are other things I do that are riskier, and I accept that risk, but this is one risk it seems relatively easy to eliminate.

 

[stowie]

The finger is pointed at paid by the load working. Beano disputes this.

There was an interesting blog I read the other day which pointed out that, even if we accept that cyclists are scofflaw idiots who have a hugely defective sense of self preservation, it still doesn't resolve the question as to why a hugely disproportionate number of fatalities in London are with construction lorries. Surely these death-wish cyclists also ride down the inside of HGVs, large vans and buses (and buses are everywhere in London and share the bus lanes with us). So if there was no other factors other than the cyclists' actions then surely buses would be involved in many more fatal cyclist accidents?

I think this is somewhat important because, as nice as it might be for certain people in the haulage industry to say that it is all our fault, it might be good to work out what it is about construction lorries which means they are involved in these accidents more frequently than chance would dictate, and then look to correct this?

I have heard of police "clampdowns" with random lorry inspections where a frightening number have had faults with the lorry or the driver has been violating legislation. OK, so I guess it might be somewhat easy to lose a tacograph, but some of the violations were for working longer hours than legislation allows to even operating a lorry without insurance or licence. How common this is amongst the haulage industry is something I don't know, but there seems a certain lack of will to confront it.

 

[stowie]

I choose not to filter up the inside of a large lorry, even if it is stationary and I can see the lights are red, because I figure that if I do it a hundred times a year, a thousand times in a lifetime's cycling, the odds are too high that in just 0.1% of cases I will have misjudged the situation. I'm sure there are other things I do that are riskier, and I accept that risk, but this is one risk it seems relatively easy to eliminate.

I once filtered up the inside of a HGV and realised another HGV was in front of it with virtually no time for me to get to the front before the lights changed. It was a very sobering incident. I will overtake on the outside though as I would on a motorbike, or if the lorry is in the next lane, I may use the inside lane to move past depending on the circumstances.

No matter how careful you are though, I have still had (mainly construction lorries) pass way too close and a few left hooks - where a collision was avoided by my defensive actions.

If road authorities put cycle lanes up the inside of roads then it isn't unreasonable to assume that some cyclists (especially those who aren't "into" cycling but just use it as transport) to think that this is OK to use.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

Posting the pic of the cab interior is a good and helpful thing. I am aware of when a driver can see me and when he/she can't and ride accordingly.
My gripe is with lorry drivers who do see me, decide to pass within.inches at speed, just.because they are impatient and irresponsible. Sadly that in.my experience is the majority of hgv drivers. I do not accept that they have any less obligation to obey.the highway.code than anybody else, and they ignore it blatantly and consistently.
I don't.undertake hgv s ...they overtake and cut in to quick. I'm sorry but it will take a lot to convince me that hgv drivers have any thought for anybody except themselves on the road. Experience has taught.me to distrust everything they do out there..they represent the single biggest risk to my.life imho. Other than my.own protection, I have zero respect for those hgv drivers who threaten.my life for whatever their misguided reasons or beliefs.
Leave me alone. Back off and go away.