What I can see in my NS truck mirrors.

[Sara_H]

Simply saying ban them all helps no one making them as safe as possible is the only option as they are here to stay is the only point i was trying to make.

I think you'll find that the suggestion was (and it works well in other places in the world) ban them from mingling with people. So if it wasn;'t clear, have distribution centres based at motorway exits - with vehicles that are more suitable for urban areas the taking the the goods from there.

 

[classic33]

There's also this to think about: one HGV, driven by someone with specialist training (OK, some might be bad, but many many more are fine), or 7 or 8 Transits, driven by someone who managed to pass a car test and not necessarily any more....

Not that I like HGVs and LGVs in town, I can just see the most likely alternative....

I think you're touting for business.

 

[mark st1]

It's very telling to me that you consider your lack of accidents to be down to luck.

Well i could quote my immense driving skill but i fear your hysterical response.

 

[shouldbeinbed]

Sorry, I wasn't really expecting a full answer to that one.

You want me to go into the realms of imagination and make an essay up on the spot or just stick to being honest about a hypothetical situation?

Wasn't there a test of a 'robot' car that simply ploughed into the back of the vehicle it was supposed to recognise and pull up short of? I guess they're not there yet with the technology or it'd be being trumpeted in the car ads, motoring journals & on top gear etc.


best I can do now I'm afraid, Young Montalbano is on.

 

[mark st1]

Eh? I'm pleased to hear you are a skilled driver, I am too.

Excellent i hope to swap tales of our greatness on the way to Southend next weekend hopefully i can come across better in person

 

[Brandane]

Oh do grow up, who said ban everything. Try and think of other solutions.

The debate has become one of eradicating risk. I am just pointing out the obvious; that without huge sacrifices and/or great expense, it's not going to happen.
The sensible solution is that we ALL grow up and learn how to share the roads in a considerate manner. That will never happen as long as the "them and us" attitude prevails. I hate to say this, especially on a cycling forum, but IMHO that attitude is more prevalent among cyclists than other road users. Yes I can appreciate why; we are the vulnerable group, while car drivers and truckers have less to worry about if they wander into someone else's space, so they care a lot less.
So - make more space available on the roads. Firstly give us a public transport system at reasonable cost and fit for purpose (outside of London, that does not exist), THEN (and ONLY then) maybe think about making the cost of unnecessary car trips a deterrent.
The freight traffic is governed very much by demand. As I already posted, haulage companies won't put HGVs out on the road unless they are making money. You want your cheese sandwiches available fresh every day in Tescos, at low cost? Then they're going to have to be trucked in from a regional distribution centre. Or be locally sourced and cost an awful lot more.

 

[Sara_H]

The sensible solution is that we ALL grow up and learn how to share the roads in a considerate manner.

What even children? Do you understand that some of the people who are expected to use our roads to cycle on just don't have the devemental capacity to understand the contents of Cycle Craft or the Highway Code?

 

[BigonaBianchi]

Next time a transport manager hands me the keys of an artic, along with a pile of delivery notes and tells me to go into several different town centres and deliver pallets of goods to shops where greedy consumers wait to buy said goods as cheaply as possible, I must try that line. "But.... but.... boss; cyclists and car drivers don't like us being in town centres. Can't I drop the stuff off at a motorway services and you can get a fleet of vans to take it the rest of the way?"

"Aye no problem driver, pick up your P45 on the way out!".

Bottom line is, we, the consumers, demand goods in the shops to be available, and to be available cheaper than anywhere else. That means that everything is done as cheaply as possible, from being manufactured in sweat-shops in the far east, to being delivered by an artic rather than several vans. Reason being is quite simple; cost.

Doesnt give hgv drivers the right to drive as dangerous as they do.

 

[Brandane]

What even children? Do you understand that some of the people who are expected to use our roads to cycle on just don't have the devemental capacity to understand the contents of Cycle Craft or the Highway Code?

I remember being a child. I remember being a child on a bicycle. I don't remember being turfed out onto the A78 to mix it with the lorries as soon as my stabilisers were removed. There was, and I hope there still is, a thing called parental responsibility. If your child is not ready for the main roads and the associated traffic, then make sure they stay well clear. Road sense is an acquired skill which takes some time to develop. I was about 14 before I really was allowed to go wherever I wanted on my bike, alone.

 

[Brandane]

Doesnt give hgv drivers the right to drive as dangerous as they do.

I'm not going to start defending all HGV drivers, just the same as I wouldn't go on Trucknet UK and start defending all cyclists. There are good and bad on both sides, we all know that. Clearly your overall experience of HGV drivers has not been good. I find the vast majority of them to be fine; in fact the bigger the truck, the more room they give me. Hand on heart, I have NEVER had a close pass from an artic. Plenty from 7.5 tonners, but they can be driven by Joe Bloggs who walks into rentatruck with his car licence (as long as he passed his car test before 1996 ?? he has entitlement to drive up to 7.5 tonnes).

 

[Sara_H]

I remember being a child. I remember being a child on a bicycle. I don't remember being turfed out onto the A78 to mix it with the lorries as soon as my stabilisers were removed. There was, and I hope there still is, a thing called parental responsibility. If your child is not ready for the main roads and the associated traffic, then make sure they stay well clear. Road sense is an acquired skill which takes some time to develop. I was about 14 before I really was allowed to go wherever I wanted on my bike, alone.

And this is the problem, we all go along with the notion that it's ok to prevent sections of our society from using the roads for the convenience and profit of others.
Yes, I think my son should have been able to safely go about his business by bike as soon as he was able to operate one (as chldren do in Copenhagen for example). Of course he couldn't because it wasn't safe. And my elderly MIL who used to love cycling, no longer cycles because she feels she can no longer be safe in the traffic.
Yours is a typical victim blaming response. I suppose in the scenario I described earlier, if my son had been splatted on the pavement by the co op lorry, that would have been my responsibility for allowing him to walk on the pavement, and not that of the lorry driver for driving blindly across the pavement?

 

[Brandane]

And this is the problem, we all go along with the notion that it's ok to prevent sections of our society from using the roads for the convenience and profit of others.
Yes, I think my son should have been able to safely go about his business by bike as soon as he was able to operate on (as chldren do in Copenhagen for example).
Yours is a typical victim blaming response. I suppose in the scenario I described earlier, if my son had been splatted on the pavement by the co op lorry, that would have been my responsibility for allowing him to walk on the pavement, and not that of the lorry driver for driving blindly across the pavement?

This is clearly a sensitive area for you, given your occupation. If the Co-Op lorry did indeed drive blindly across the pavement, then clearly it would be the drivers fault. Pavements are where one can reasonably expect to find pedestrians.
On the other hand, if a child is wandering about a main road and gets hit by a vehicle, then the circumstances would obviously have to be very closely analysed, but there would have to be an element of asking why the child was allowed to wander about on the road. Some of the blame might well be attributed to the driver, depending on the full circumstances, but some might be attributed to the child. Or the parents/person in charge at the time.

 

[Sara_H]

This is clearly a sensitive area for you, given your occupation. If the Co-Op lorry did indeed drive blindly across the pavement, then clearly it would be the drivers fault. Pavements are where one can reasonably expect to find pedestrians.
On the other hand, if a child is wandering about a main road and gets hit by a vehicle, then the circumstances would obviously have to be very closely analysed, but there would have to be an element of asking why the child was allowed to wander about on the road. Some of the blame might well be attributed to the driver, depending on the full circumstances, but some might be attributed to the child. Or the parents/person in charge at the time.

Of course it was driving blindly, he can't see anything there! He's always driving blindly!

 

[mark st1]

Of course it was driving blindly, he can't see anything there! He's always driving blindly!

That is poor form for a company like that (or any company tbh). Have you thought of approaching the store and voicing your concern and suggesting they use a banks man? Or an e-mail off to there transport department. Mixing reversing and pavements is a recipe for disaster.

This isn't a sarcastic post btw !

 

[Brandane]

Of course it was driving blindly, he can't see anything there! He's always driving blindly!

OK; if the location is as blind as you describe, then the driver should be employing the services of a banksman (basically a look-out) as he backs out. Drivers do this all the time - it could be the guy from the Co-Op loading bay or any member of the Co-Op staff. I have even just commandeered a passing member of public on occasions, and prayed that they possessed a certain amount of common sense.