What happens when a cyclist breaks the speed limit?

[Arjimlad]

My descents of the Kirkstone Pass have involved more braking than I would like, due chiefly to my doubts about the ability of sheep to judge my speed before stepping out.

It's fun going fast downhill, but drivers and pedestrians probably won't be expecting a cyclist to go all that fast, so it's safer to ride to the conditions. I wouldn't want to hit a person or vehicle at speed, after all, regardless of whose fault it might be in law.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Speed limits are odd things anyway. They must be wrong more often than they're right, as they're set for a certain type of situation, with generalisations for drivers and vehicles. You can be within the speed limit and still be driving too fast, fog and ice being two examples.

People seem fixated on taking some paint on a bit of tin as an instruction, rather than as information to gauge potential hazards by.

 

[matticus]

It's fun going fast downhill, but drivers and pedestrians probably won't be expecting a cyclist to go all that fast, so it's safer to ride to the conditions. I wouldn't want to hit a person or vehicle at speed, after all, regardless of whose fault it might be in law.

Yes exactly. 👍

 

[nickyboy]

It would be extremely rare that I would be able to break the speed limit other than on a steep 30mph section.

I don't subscribe to this blanket 'speed limits are there for a reason' when applied to cyclists. Yes, you could seriously injure or even kill somebody. That's where judgement comes in. I doubt any of us would be absolutely gunning it through a town centre or past a school at kicking out time. Cyclists have to be aware of their surroundings. Moreso than drivers. If there are pedestrians around then take the appropriate care and always be prepared for them to step out on you. If it's a quiet road with nobody around then why not have some fun and just be prepared to slow it down when circumstances change.

So to test this theory I looked at the cyclist GPS data for the 20mph downhill I screenshotted above

50 cyclists this month. I picked out a random sample (plus the fastest and slowest). Guess what? Every cyclist exceeded 20mph. The slowest was 23mph. The 10th fastest in the month was 32mph

It seems fair to say that cyclists consistently go past the 20mph limited school faster than 20mph, often more than 50% more than the speed limit.

The question is, do you think that's OK? And if you don't, what should we do about it?

 

[Solocle]

It would be extremely rare that I would be able to break the speed limit other than on a steep 30mph section.

I don't subscribe to this blanket 'speed limits are there for a reason' when applied to cyclists. Yes, you could seriously injure or even kill somebody. That's where judgement comes in. I doubt any of us would be absolutely gunning it through a town centre or past a school at kicking out time. Cyclists have to be aware of their surroundings. Moreso than drivers. If there are pedestrians around then take the appropriate care and always be prepared for them to step out on you. If it's a quiet road with nobody around then why not have some fun and just be prepared to slow it down when circumstances change.

Yep - speed limits are there for a reason, to keep idiot motons at some semblance of a prudent speed, instead of dealing with the root cause, idiot motons.

Equally, there's a reason that the legislators went out of their way to specify motor vehicle.

It shall not be lawful for a person to drive a motor vehicle on a restricted road at a speed exceeding 30 miles per hour.

 

[matticus]

I looked at the cyclist GPS data
<snip...>
It seems fair to say that cyclists [Matt added:]logged on cyclist GPS data consistently go past the 20mph limited school faster than 20mph, often more than 50% more than the speed limit.

The question is, do you think that's OK? And if you don't, what should we do about it?

[Added the bold to stress there may be sampling bias here.]
Do you have equivalent data for drivers? Not on a "two wrongs making a right" basis, but so that I have all relevant info before i comment.

(and is either data-set broken down by time-of-day?)

 

[nickyboy]

[Added the bold to stress there may be sampling bias here.]
Do you have equivalent data for drivers? Not on a "two wrongs making a right" basis, but so that I have all relevant info before i comment.

(and is either data-set broken down by time-of-day?)

I haven't got time as I have a job

The reality is all 50 cyclists this month who log GPS data exceeded the 20mph speed limit past the school and a lot went more than 50% faster than the limit. Any reasonable person would draw the conclusion from this that a lot of cyclists exceed the 20mph limit past the school, a significant portion of which exceed it by a lot

So the question remains...is that a problem and, if so, what should be done?

 

[matticus]

So the question remains...is that a problem and, if so, what should be done?

Fair question: I'd still say I want to know if the high speeds coincide with kids being around.

Other evidence you could submit: injuries that occurred with (adult!) cyclists. Injuries from impacts with cars.

It COULD be that the few speedsters either do it during Double Maths, or at 7pm. Or ride down the middle of the road, and slow down if they see any kids. I, for one, do not know.

(but I do know that people die every day from car impacts in all sorts of speed limits)

 

[roubaixtuesday]

What happens when a cyclist breaks the speed limit?

I think I know the answer to this.

If you consider that a cyclist will always appear to have the same speed to any observers, it follows from basic relativity that their mass must increase as the limit is reached, and time dilates to accommodate this.

Should the limit be exceeded, the event horizon is passed, whereby anecdotes of the event cannot escape and we are doomed to relive them forever.

I submit this thread in evidence.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

What happens when a cyclist breaks the speed limit?

I think I know the answer to this.

If you consider that a cyclist will always appear to have the same speed to any observers, it follows from basic relativity that their mass must increase as the limit is reached, and time dilates to accommodate this.

Should the limit be exceeded, the event horizon is passed, whereby anecdotes of the event cannot escape and we are doomed to relive them forever.

I submit this thread in evidence.

Ah, but with just a couple of notable exceptions, there are no limits for cyclists to exceed.

 

[nickyboy]

Fair question: I'd still say I want to know if the high speeds coincide with kids being around.

Other evidence you could submit: injuries that occurred with (adult!) cyclists. Injuries from impacts with cars.

It COULD be that the few speedsters either do it during Double Maths, or at 7pm. Or ride down the middle of the road, and slow down if they see any kids. I, for one, do not know.

(but I do know that people die every day from car impacts in all sorts of speed limits)

I'm not arguing one way or another so I suggest you get whatever additional information you feel you need

All I'm doing is refuting the assertion that "cyclists don't generally exceed the speed limit and ride to the conditions". That clearly isn't the case as EVERY cyclist in the 50 person sample broke the speed limit, a significant portion of which did so by more than 50%. Your idea it's a "few speedsters" ain't right..it was 100% of all the cyclists on that road which loaded up a GPS file

As I keep saying...the issue is whether this is a problem and, if so, what should be done about it.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

EVERY cyclist in the 50 person sample broke the speed limit, a significant portion of which did so by more than 50%.
As I keep saying...the issue is whether this is a problem and, if so, what should be done about it.

Training and advice for the slower ones?

 

[Deleted member 26715]

I enjoy passing cars on the 20mph roads round here. They are usually doing 15/18mph, so passing them is easy.

We have quite a short steep hill near us, I like to go down it on the MTB dinging my bell trying to get cars to get out of my way

 

[matticus]

I'm not arguing one way or another so I suggest you get whatever additional information you feel you need

All I'm doing is refuting the assertion that "cyclists don't generally exceed the speed limit and ride to the conditions". That clearly isn't the case as EVERY cyclist in the 50 person sample broke the speed limit, a significant portion of which did so by more than 50%. Your idea it's a "few speedsters" ain't right..it was 100% of all the cyclists on that road which loaded up a GPS file

As I keep saying...the issue is whether this is a problem and, if so, what should be done about it.

20mph speed limits are not "generally" the case on our road network. So you haven't disproved that statement. It's quite possible that riders DO ride to the conditions past that school.

"problem"? "issue"? It feels like many people are saying there isn't a problem, while you're highlighting (selective) data to suggest there IS a problem in this location. It was yourself that highlighted this location IIRC? For people that are unaware of a problem, i'd say there is no issue

Do YOU think there is a problem there, or are you just doing your best Jeremy Vine impression?? :P

 

[mustang1]

instead of speed limits, they should introduce momentum limits. Multiply your speed by the mass and you get your momentum. Here are some examples:
1.5 ton car at 30mph has same momentum as 100kg rider at 500mph.
So I guess that would be the bike's speed limit.