What an HGV sees of you

[Rhythm Thief]

It's worth noting that one of the mirrors in the cab was missed. It's at the top of the passenger window and shows you what is to the side of the cab and has a convected mirror to show a large area.

The mirror at the top of the passenger side window is designed to be used while manoevering. It shows a very limited area around the front corner of the cab and is intended to allow the driver to avoid clouting the bottom step of the cab on kerbs, concrete posts and what have you when turning. It will show a cyclist right next to the cab, but it wouldn't really have helped in the video in the OP.
Incidentally, the lorry in the video is in pretty much the exact position it would be in if it was at the entrance to a roundabout. It may not be an entirely accurate representation of an artic's blind spot, but it's not far off.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

Is it always universally unsafe to be to the left of an HGV?

It's certainly not a good place to be. You're relying on an awful lot of things going right, all of which are entirely outside your control. Depending on things which are outside your control is a bad idea for any road user, not just cyclists.

 

[ufkacbln]

Is it always universally unsafe to be to the left of an HGV?

Depends on your knowledge and circumstances.

There is one set of lights on my commute where left hooks into Paulsgrove are virtually guaranteed.

There is an on road cycle facility to an ASL which is really the only way to tackle this junction safely

I know the light sequence so in these circumstances - yes I would go down on the left of an HGV and access the ASL if the sequence is in my favour

 

[Dan B]

sometimes i wonder if I'm, surrounded by idiots,

You could try looking in your mirrors?

 

[Brandane]

The mirror at the top of the passenger side window is designed to be used while manoevering. It shows a very limited area around the front corner of the cab and is intended to allow the driver to avoid clouting the bottom step of the cab on kerbs, concrete posts and what have you when turning. It will show a cyclist right next to the cab, but it wouldn't really have helped in the video in the OP.
Incidentally, the lorry in the video is in pretty much the exact position it would be in if it was at the entrance to a roundabout. It may not be an entirely accurate representation of an artic's blind spot, but it's not far off.

When I sat my test in 2005 (ish), we were taught that the mirror at the top of the nearside window was for picking out pedestrians/cyclists who were within a couple of feet of the side of the cab, and therefore in the blind spot of the main mirrors and below window level.
It was a driving fault for test purposes if you didn't check it before moving off, after each time you were stopped. Not just manoeuvring.

As an HGV driver, how can you find that video to be anything like a true representation? Mirrors are wrongly adjusted and camera level is way below eye level. Yes the cab/trailer angle might be similar to that when at the give way lines coming onto a roundabout, but that's not what it is trying to represent. Even the most foolhardy cyclist would surely be having a brain lapse if they tried to cut up the nearside of an artic at a roundabout.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

@Rhythm Thief , I started a discussion in post #96 (continued in #98 and #101) with @Brandane about swivelly mirrors. I know little about driving HGVs so it may be a completely useless idea but it would be simple, cheap and so far it appears to me that it could help vision in artics. As you have hands on experience of HGVs, I wondered whether you had any comments or observations that you could make. Feel free to rubbish the idea but I would appreciate getting some more feedback.

 

[bpsmith]

"As fast as legally allowed" is not the same as "as fast as is safe". Shared paths are simply not designed for fast cyclists. Even segregated paths are still likely to have pedestrian traffic on them, will not get gritted in winter and are unlikely to be maintained to the same standard as roads, so fast cycling on those facilities is unlikely to be advisable. The same applies to road speed limits: they aren't targets, there is a requirement for motorists to reduce speed in reduced visibility or poor grip. The fact that this is widely ignored along with the "you should drive at a speed at which you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear" does not make it acceptable - or legal.

Most cyclist injuries are not as a result of collisions with other vehicles, but due to things like ice, diesel, leaves, potholes, etc. Segregation will do nothing to solve this, in fact as a result of the usually poor standard of construction (it's amazing how many designers seem to think that high kerbs and sharp 90 degree bends are perfectly fine) and poor upkeep is likely to worsen matters.

At what point did I say Unsafe riding? I just meant that you could ride more naturally, and at a faster speed if you choose, if there were dedicated tracks/paths. At no point did I say to ride as fast as possible despite the circumstances. Surely this is common sense and need not be explained!?!

 

[bpsmith]

I was behind an artic this morning, in the car, and noticed a brand new very clean sticker stating not to undertake the vehicle down the left hand side as the drive has a restricted view. Things like this cant harm surely? Kind of reemphasises the point of this post tbh....awareness!

Unfortunately, this thread has turned into a "who know's best" rather than anything worthy of discussion it seems...

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I was behind an artic this morning, in the car, and noticed a brand new very clean sticker stating not to undertake the vehicle down the left hand side as the drive has a restricted view. Things like this cant harm surely? Kind of reemphasises the point of this post tbh....awareness!

Unfortunately, this thread has turned into a "who know's best" rather than anything worthy of discussion it seems...

And I've been trying to engage people with much more knowledge about the inside of an HGV. It may be a rubbish idea- a sticking plaster on a gaping wound - but I'm trying to be constructive.

 

[Wobblers]

At what point did I say Unsafe riding? I just meant that you could ride more naturally, and at a faster speed if you choose, if there were dedicated tracks/paths. At no point did I say to ride as fast as possible despite the circumstances. Surely this is common sense and need not be explained!?!

You said "as fast as legally allowed". That isn't the same as "going at a safe speed". While it may be obvious common sense to you, there are plenty of road users you don't appear to have that common sense - as that multiple pile up in the fog at Sheerness a few weeks ago demonstrated. To most people "as fast as legally allowed" means exactly as going at the speed limit, no matter the conditions. I shouldn't need to spell that out.

When I wish to ride at a faster speed, I use the roads, because they are designed for fast traffic - cycle paths are not. Safe speeds on even dedicated cycle paths are below 12 mph.

 

[subaqua]

to play devil's advocate: science, efficient, seize, weird and caffeine

I know it is off topic

recipient

QI has a whole host of words that don't meet the "Rules of Grammar" I do love it when atempts at pedantry backfire spectacularly ( or spectacularly backfire who knows or cares)

 

[subaqua]

And when we have widened all the roads in the country to however wide they need to be to provide separate lanes for pedestrians, horse riders, wheel chair users, powered and unpowered, cyclists, milk floats, HGVs, Morris Minors, other cars, BMWs, etc each at their best speed, how are you going to manage the junctions?

ASLs they work really well .

 

[Brandane]

Unfortunately, this thread has turned into a "who know's best" rather than anything worthy of discussion it seems...

Is that not part of the point in taking part in discussions on internet forums? Seeing things from a previously unknown perspective and sharing differing levels of knowledge? It is just slightly disappointing when some people rubbish others POV because their heads are stuck firmly in the sand.

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

[QUOTE 2783373, member: 30090"]You have not engaged with me at all - I feel left out.[/quote]
If you had anything constructive to say, you would have already said it, wouldn't you?

 

[Brandane]

A second question about the risk of creating other blind spots: I imagine that under the current arrangement, when you turn to the left, there's a degree of sweep through a small arc before it becomes simply a view of the nearside of the truck. Would the loss of that sweep view be significant, given that you'll be concentrating primarily on the road you're entering? And what other loss of vision might there be?

Without the help of a blackboard, chalk, and a toy articulated lorry, this is a difficult one to explain!
I am thinking that the loss of sweep wouldn't be too much of a problem, given that the driver has already established that the area which is about to become "blind" has already been seen to be clear, otherwise he wouldn't be continuing with the manoeuvre.
The problem might arise when straightening up again, if someone has been stupid enough to move into the blind area while the lorry was turning. I had this exact situation one night when joining the M8 motorway in Edinburgh, from the city by-pass (A720).
Heavy traffic on a big multi-lane roundabout, and I am going right on the roundabout. Someone lets me into the queue, so I am effectively turning to my left to join the right hand lane for turning right. I couldn't straighten up in the space available before coming to a stop in the traffic, so trailer is sitting about 45 degrees to the left of the tractor unit. Nobber in car thinks he can take advantage and cut into the traffic by coming up the left side of my trailer, about 2 feet from the side of it! What he doesn't think about is how my trailer is going to move to my left as I straighten up, and is going to re-arrange the right side of his car. Luckily I checked my nearside mirrors (as always) before moving off and realised I would have to sit there until nobber realised what he had done. With swivelling mirrors I would only have been able to see him in the blind spot mirror.
Your idea might work better if the main mirror was split into two parts (it is big enough for that) with one half remaining the way it is in one position, and the other half able to swivel outwards and inwards in conjunction with the steering.
We don't want any more mirrors! There are enough distractions already, and mirrors in themselves cause blind spots. They are quite big, and you can't see through them.