Well knock me down with a feather...

[Chuffy]

It doesn't. The cancer/brain haemorrhage overcoming is just part of the media sensationalism which adds something to a good story.

In addition there is the way that fans/admirers of Team LA tend to use the 'but he survived cancer!' line as a special trump card that deflects any criticism. Panter's post (retraction duly noted) is a great example.

On the other hand there is a team where selection is partly based on health situation: Team Type 1.

Ah. Not Team Type O then...

 

[andy_wrx]

What's funny is that the press have spent almost a year forecasting this type of thing, only for Astana to deny any problem.

What also amused me was the ITV4 programmes, where Gary Inmlach and Matt Rendell would comment on the politics, undercurrents and infighting, would get Chris Boardman on to comment about them...

...whereas the Paul & Phil commentary duo would blithely ignore it all and see just how many times in 30 minutes they could cram-in mentions of how strong Lance Armstrong was looking !

 

[trustysteed]

He's already won a greater spread of titles than LA ever dreamed of.

I'm pretty sure that was because Armstrong chose to concentrate on the TDF. If he'd have ridden the Giro or Vuelta instead of the TDF some of the years, he probably would have won those as well but the TDF is the pinnacle of cycling so that was his priority.

 

[Crackle]

So any other 'nearly died' winners of the Tour or winners with serious handicaps, excluding being French, which is the same thing.

Lemond, Armstrong, Contador ....... ?

 

[Chuffy]

I'm pretty sure that was because Armstrong chose to concentrate on the TDF. If he'd have ridden the Giro or Vuelta instead of the TDF some of the years, he probably would have won those as well but the TDF is the pinnacle of cycling so that was his priority.

Shall we open the up the 'who is the greatest cyclist of all time' can'o'worms?

Clue - it isn't St Lance, by a very long way...

 

[Chuffy]

So any other 'nearly died' winners of the Tour or winners with serious handicaps, excluding being French, which is the same thing.

Lemond, Armstrong, Contador ....... ?

Eddie Merckx. Born with only one leg and had a lung replaced by a Netto carrier bag when he was 3 months old.

Not a lot of people know that.

 

[trustysteed]

Shall we open the up the 'who is the greatest cyclist of all time' can'o'worms?

Clue - it isn't St Lance, by a very long way...

There is no 'greatest cyclist'. There's only anybody's own personal opinion about who they admire the most. Just because someone else tells me a certain person is the greatest cyclist, doesn't mean it's true.

For me, it is Lance but then maybe that's because I got into the cycling thing about 10 years ago just when he was starting his TDF domination. I'm sure for other people, the greatest cyclist is the one they watched during their own era in previous decades.

Some people might say Schumacher was the greatest F1 driver of all time as he won the most grand prix's and championships, accrued the most points, pole positions etc. But for me the best driver ever was Ayrton Senna. It's all personal opinion.

So saying it isn't Lance because you think it's someone else is only really relevant to you.

 

[beancounter]

There is no 'greatest cyclist'. There's only anybody's own personal opinion about who they admire the most.

Obviously everyone has an opinion and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

However, Merckx was demonstrably the greatest cyclist ever.

Do some research.

bc

 

[Chuffy]

There is no 'greatest cyclist'. There's only anybody's own personal opinion about who they admire the most. Just because someone else tells me a certain person is the greatest cyclist, doesn't mean it's true.

For me, it is Lance but then maybe that's because I got into the cycling thing about 10 years ago just when he was starting his TDF domination. I'm sure for other people, the greatest cyclist is the one they watched during their own era in previous decades.

Some people might say Schumacher was the greatest F1 driver of all time as he won the most grand prix's and championships, accrued the most points, pole positions etc. But for me the best driver ever was Ayrton Senna. It's all personal opinion.

So saying it isn't Lance because you think it's someone else is only really relevant to you.

Senna didn't have as long a career as that cheating Kraut ba*stard (as he's known in these parts). Who knows what he would have won if he'd lived? Likewise Fausto Coppi didn't get to race the Tour for several years because of the war. Who knows how many he would have won? Even Merckx was humbled when he learned how Coppi's career had been handicapped. If Merckx had focussed on the Tour exclusively he'd have won ten (cf Bernard Hinault iirc). You say it's just opinion, I say it's more than that. it's breadth and depth of victories and LA comes nowhere near the true greats. Incidentally, my interest started while LA was about to start preparing for his 5th Tour victory. Cycling fans are a historically minded bunch. We're not like football fans who latch on to whoever happens to be top at the moment.

 

[simon_brooke]

''...there's no 'I' in team''

Yes, I thought that was wonderfully and humorously ironic, coming from Lance.

 

[trustysteed]

Do some research.

bc

yes, i know merckx won all sorts of races but he's still only the greatest cyclist in your personal opinion based on criteria that you've decided for yourself.

i have my personal sporting idols who i think are the greatest for myself for my own reasons.

who's the greatest tennis player ever? laver, borg, or federer? there's arguments for each, but it will still come down to each person's personal view on what makes the greatest sports person in their discipline.

 

[Crackle]

No we don't. We come to a consensus. By most peoples consensus, Merkcx was the best, Armstrong some way down.

 

[Crackle]

Most what, Tour De France's, Grand Tours, Classics, all of them plus others?

 

[Chuffy]

Most what, Tour De France's, Grand Tours, Classics, all of them plus others?

Only the Tour counts. After all, Lance barely mentions the others in his books.

 

[Crackle]

Would LA be the best ever TdF rider then?

Certainly the most succesful. I think there are a number of individual victories which stand out above his but you can't argue with 7 wins in a row.