Weight watchers 2022

[icowden]

My wife and I started using that last year and between March and Christmas I lost 11kg while she lost 22kg. It was the easiest thing we’ve ever done and just came down to portion control. We still ate all of the foods we liked, only with a lowered daily calorie ceiling.

I found that you also learn a little bit. For example, I learned that instead of italian salami (which I love), it's better to have say Ham, and have salami as more of a special occasion meat. Also interesting that quite often I can get really good calorie counts for filling meals using proper food rather than buying "count on us" or "balanced for you" ready meals. The only thing I don't like is that it can get a bit monotonous - I've pretty much stopped recording in the app, and just go for <400 cals breakfast c600 cals lunch and <800 cals dinner. No ciders, except for special occasions, no snacks and I only drink squash anyway so drinks are free. My wife prefers to go for lower calorie meals and have a glass of wine or a gin in the evening. It still works.

 

[Etern4l]

When it comes to losing weight, keeping it off in the long term, maintaining a healthy lifestyle and living a long life then we are all experts. The thing is we may all be experts but we cannot all be right. Winning the argument on here doesn't make you right particularly when you can get shut down by someone who doesn't agree with you, leaving the floor open so to speak.
So if you are very slim, very fit, take no medications and are very healthy with no aches or pain or diseases or medical conditions of any sort then you might have a handle on a lifestyle which is worthy of serious consideration. A keto diet with IF and regular exercise ticks all the boxes for me. The key is metabolic health and concerns a hormone called insulin.

I mean it's a complex issue but we can in theory benchmark various approaches in terms of uncontroversial objective metrics, such as:
1. Do practitioners achieve healthy weight and manage to keep it off long term?
2. Do practitioners enjoy optimal long term cardiovascular health? (Atkins, keto, paleo et al likely fail this sanity check)
3. What is the impact of the diet on the expected life span of practitioners? (ditto, as a consequence of 2. )

In practice, the body of rigorous research data regarding many diets is lacking, posing a risk to adopters.

 

[Etern4l]

I found that you also learn a little bit. For example, I learned that instead of italian salami (which I love), it's better to have say Ham

There are many issues with both foods, the primary one being that both are highly processed, and in this case actually classed as carcinogenic by the WHO.

 

[icowden]

There are many issues with both foods, the primary one being that both are highly processed, and in this case actually classed as carcinogenic by the WHO.

It rather depends on the Ham and the Salami I think you will find. For example the Wiltshire cured ham in my fridge is from a pork leg using curing salt. If you buy one of those sad looking boxes of square ham pieces that's a very different kettle of fish. Both are "processed" but only the latter is "highly processed".

I also didn't say that I eat ham every day. So the volume is also is important, I tend to alternate between ham, cottage cheese, chicken, pastrami and just try to minimise high calorie meats such as salami and prosciutto cotto.

Everything in reasonable amounts. My wife eats more salad, I eat more fish... que sera sera

 

[Julia9054]

clean the body of toxins

You have a liver and kidneys for that.

if you are very slim, very fit, take no medications and are very healthy with no aches or pain or diseases or medical conditions of any sort then you might have a handle on a lifestyle which is worthy of serious consideration

Or more likely a lucky set of genes.

 

[Etern4l]

It rather depends on the Ham and the Salami I think you will find. For example the Wiltshire cured ham in my fridge is from a pork leg using curing salt. If you buy one of those sad looking boxes of square ham pieces that's a very different kettle of fish. Both are "processed" but only the latter is "highly processed".

Right, the key is to avoid highly-processed foods. Unfortunately, that can be quite a challenge given those harmful foods are ubiquitous and low cost. One must try though, I guess, we only at present have one body available to us per lifetime. The good news is that we have learned a lot in a recent decade or two, and thus have an informational advantage over past generations. Would be a shame not use it.

I also didn't say that I eat ham every day. So the volume is also is important, I tend to alternate between ham, cottage cheese, chicken, pastrami and just try to minimise high calorie meats such as salami and prosciutto cotto.

Everything in reasonable amounts. My wife eats more salad, I eat more fish... que sera sera

Clearly, the "everything in moderation" approach is not optimal, but indeed, the less you are exposed the more you can limit the damage.

 

[Etern4l]

You have a liver and kidneys for that.

Strictly speaking, they would need to be all in place and healthy/optimally functioning too. Sadly not everyone has the luxury. Probably best to limit the toxin input where possible in the first place.

 

[icowden]

Right, the key is to avoid highly-processed foods. Unfortunately, that can be quite a challenge given those harmful foods are ubiquitous and low cost. One must try though, I guess, we only at present have one body available to us per lifetime. The good news is that we have learned a lot in a recent decade or two, and thus have an informational advantage over past generations. Would be a shame not use it.

My grandma is 104 this year. She managed this without notably having any fad diets or trying to avoid processed food. It's almost like there may be more to life than avoiding bacon.

 

[Etern4l]

My grandma is 104 this year. She managed this without notably having any fad diets or trying to avoid processed food. It's almost like there may be more to life than avoiding bacon.

Best to think of this example as an outlier, and thus not necessarily a good basis for deriving optimal dietary policy. There are some centenarian smokers, yet these days nobody argues with smoking posing significant health risk.
You may be a lucky outlier too, the only way to find out is to follow your grandma's bacon diet and find out. For science!

 

[Fat Lars]

I mean it's a complex issue but we can in theory benchmark various approaches in terms of uncontroversial objective metrics, such as:
1. Do practitioners achieve healthy weight and manage to keep it off long term?
2. Do practitioners enjoy optimal long term cardiovascular health? (Atkins, keto et al likely fail this check)
3. What is the impact of the diet on the expected life span of practitioners? (ditto, as a consequence of 2. )

In practice, the body of rigorous research data regarding many diets is lacking, presenting a risk to adopters.

We totally disagree. CVD is not caused by fat clogging arteries or high LDL Cholesterol. Neither is processed meat carcinogenic. This is the mainstream view as perpetuated by vested interests. Cancer in humans is based on observational studies over a long period. Epidemiology studies can infer correlation but not causation. Red meat eaters answering questionnaires about their red meat eating habits might have confounders like smoking, less active and drink alcohol more not covered in the questionnaire and get it wrong . Such as saturated fat and heart disease.
In 2015 the International Agency for Research on Cancer ranked processed red meat in Group 1 along with Asbestos, Tobacco and Mustard Gas and various nuclear fuels like plutonium. Their evidence was based on 14 cohort studies, taking base line data on day 1 and then follow it up years later. 8 out of the 14 studies showed no link at all. 5 out of the 14 showed no statistical significance. 1 out of 14 found statistical significance showed 1.85 higher risk. This was a study of Eventists in America mainly vegeterians from thier religion. The red meat eaters tended to smoke more, dink more, and more likely to be overweight. Plus nearly all processed red meat is eaten with a bun, fizzy drinks, and high sugar sauces. Eating processed red meat is a marker of bad health and not a maker of bad health. The relative risk is 1.18. Anything under 2 is t considered weak even with the confounders. Contrast the epidemiology study re lung cancer and smoking the relative risk is 10-30.

 

[Fat Lars]

You have a liver and kidneys for that.

Or more likely a lucky set of genes.

Cute answer.

I wasn't always so lucky. I've developed my luck by virtually eliminating the arthritis in my knackered knees caused by sporting injuries. No further need for a walking stick on country walks, no nore pain, and i can get up from the ground by using just one leg instead of previously needing to grab a piece of furniture.

So all of the nay sayers what is your medical and physical condition. Are you overweight or obese ? I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating as long as its keto.

 

[Fat Lars]

That concludes my input. You are the experts not me. What do I know?

 

[Etern4l]

We totally disagree. (1) CVD is not caused by fat clogging arteries or high LDL Cholesterol. (2) Neither is processed meat carcinogenic.

I stopped reading there. Apart from your concerning self-reference in plural:

On point 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronary_artery_disease

The picture on the right says more than a 1000 words.

On point 2. https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/colorectal-cancer/risk-factors-and-prevention

Who might have a vested interest in designating red meat and processed foods as risk factors here? The meat and processed foods mega-industries? Big pharma? Medical professionals? Unbelievable.

 

[Fat Lars]

I stopped reading there. Apart from your concerning self-reference in plural:

On point 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronary_artery_disease

The picture on the right says more than a 1000 words.

On point 2. https://www.cancer.net/cancer-types/colorectal-cancer/risk-factors-and-prevention

Who might have a vested interest in designating red meat and processed foods as risk factors here? The meat and processed foods mega-industries? Big pharma? Medical professionals? Unbelievable.

Wikipedia.

Give me a break. Loads and loads of tosh.

 

[Etern4l]

Wikipedia.

Give me a break. Loads and loads of tosh.

Sure, never mind the 141 references under the article.. Well, the alternative at hand are your naked highly controversial statements.