Weight watchers 2022

[Etern4l]

Eat mainly protein and fat (they often come together anyway - eg eggs, steak etc).

Longevity.

Longevity? Good Dr Atkins used to recommend that sort of diet. Dropped at 72 after a long history of cardiovascular disease, unfortunately (but now rather predictably). Anyone who has been following this kind of dietary advice long term, would do well to keep their blood tests current and find a good cardiologist (but probably best to just go with a safer bet diet-wise - fortunately, there is no need to compromise health in order to be lean).

 

[filk]

He slipped on ice and fell.

 

[Etern4l]

He slipped on ice and fell.

"He was admitted to Weill Cornell Medical Center, where he underwent surgery to remove a blood clot from his brain, but fell into a coma. He died on April 17, at age 72.[12][13][4]"

While it's possible that a blood clot formed as a direct result of trauma, more likely it was already there and became dislodged as a result of the fall. Especially given that the trauma was relatively minor (it wasn't the direct cause of death) and what we now know about his medical history:

"A report from the New York medical examiner's office leaked a year after his death said that Atkins had a history of heart attack, congestive heart failure and hypertension, and that at the time of his death he weighed 258 pounds (117 kg).[12] "

Even if he didn't die of the blood clot then, he had been in a miserable state already.

One dreads to consider how many people suffered and died prematurely since the 70s as a result of following his diet (and the various derivatives). What did he think was going to happen once people start packing fat and cholesterol into their bodies?

 

[Noodle Legs]

I had been trying to get that to work for several years. Some nice results at the beginning (or at one of the few "new beginnings") but ultinately didn't work for me long term

Calorie deficit ALWAYS works because it’s the ONLY way to lose weight.

But exactly how you achieve that calorie deficit is up to you.

Don’t confuse Calorie Counting and Calorie Deficit as being one and the same- counting calories is just one way of achieving a deficit as are things like slimming world/weight watchers or fads like Atkins/ Keto/ etc etc. They all work because they create a deficit- pure and simple.
But too often these fads like to mask this simple fact to keep you buying in to their products, pills, potions, books by using a lot of buzz words and scientific jargon. These plans may well be created by nutritionists, Ph.D’s or even people with other fancy letters after their name so it’s easy to assume they must know what they’re talking about and they probably do, but remember they’re also selling a product.

 

[Etern4l]

Calorie deficit ALWAYS works because it’s the ONLY way to lose weight.

But exactly how you achieve that calorie deficit is up to you.

Don’t confuse Calorie Counting and Calorie Deficit as being one and the same- counting calories is just one way of achieving a deficit as are things like slimming world/weight watchers or fads like Atkins/ Keto/ etc etc. They all work because they create a deficit- pure and simple.
But too often these fads like to mask this simple fact to keep you buying in to their products, pills, potions, books by a lot of buzz words and scientific jargon. These plans may well be created by nutritionists, Ph.D’s or even people with other fancy letters after their name so it’s easy to assume they must know what they’re talking about, but remember they’re also selling a product.

Apologies, I did assume you meant to advocate calorie counting, otherwise (as you said), it's trivially obvious that caloric deficit is required to achieve weight loss.

BTW One of the many problems with "calorie counting" , apart from the additional overhead, is the huge difficulty of accurately estimating the net caloric deficit/excess. The only practical way of estimating this outside of lab setting is a posteriori with a huge lag, ideally a month, due to the natural variance of weight measurements.

Still, it can be helpful for beginners to get a rough idea of the amount of nominal calories the consumed foods contain, as understanding caloric density of foods is useful.

(I would be OK without the highlights in bold, probably best to assume readers are adults who don't need such comprehension aids)

 

[Saluki]

I follow the Bodycoach plan. Not always doing Joe’s workouts as I do have my gym membership. It’s not like a regular gym, with machines, mirrors, judgment etc. Its free weights, class based, 4 main coaches and a big bucket of enthusiasm and support. It’s a hoot, my go to happy place.
I found arm muscle the other day. It’s probably been there a while, but I had not noticed it. Post menopause, weight is a pain to shift, but I am strong, fit but a bit too squidgy.
I’d like to shift 4kg by the end of May, or go from size 14 and back to a 12. Depression and a disappointing relationship has taken its toll.

Bodycoach food rocks, by the way.

 

[Etern4l]

I follow the Bodycoach plan. Not always doing Joe’s workouts as I do have my gym membership. It’s not like a regular gym, with machines, mirrors, judgment etc. Its free weights, class based, 4 main coaches and a big bucket of enthusiasm and support. It’s a hoot, my go to happy place.
I found arm muscle the other day. It’s probably been there a while, but I had not noticed it. Post menopause, weight is a pain to shift, but I am strong, fit but a bit too squidgy.
I’d like to shift 4kg by the end of May, or go from size 14 and back to a 12. Depression and a disappointing relationship has taken its toll.

Bodycoach food rocks, by the way.

Interesting, looks like a more diet focused version of 8fit which I've been using for the adaptive workout plans when I can't get to the gym.
Both can actually tailor the meals to the specific higher-level dietary requirements, which is key. What I've found about the 8fit recipes though, is that, while delicious, they are too elaborate to be practical in the heat of action and on the daily basis. Occasionally helpful during weekends though.

 

[Noodle Legs]

BTW One of the many problems with "calorie counting" , apart from the additional overhead, is the huge difficulty of accurately estimating the net caloric deficit/excess.

Agreed, there’s a lot of trial and error involved. You can only go off what food packets and fitness trackers/apps tell you unless you have access to a lab.

When I started to lose weight I used to calorie count, and it was a bit frustrating logging everything down and all that so I can see why people give up with it. But it did seem to work for me. It’s particularly key when doing this method that people are brutally honest about their calorie intake/expenditure, which ties in to taking full responsibility for what they put in their mouth.
I’m more of a mindful eater these days so I don’t follow a diet as such nor count calories, and yes my weight fluctuates a little as a result but I understand why that is happening and I’m at peace with that.

 

[Etern4l]

Agreed, there’s a lot of trial and error involved. You can only go off what food packets and fitness trackers/apps tell you unless you have access to a lab.

When I started to lose weight I used to calorie count, and it was a bit frustrating logging everything down and all that so I can see why people give up with it. But it did seem to work for me. It’s particularly key when doing this method that people are brutally honest about their calorie intake/expenditure, which ties in to taking full responsibility for what they put in their mouth.
I’m more of a mindful eater these days so I don’t follow a diet as such nor count calories, and yes my weight fluctuates a little as a result but I understand why that is happening and I’m at peace with that.

Agree mindful eating is one of the key components. But, to be fair, perhaps a bit of calorie counting does help at the beginning. Could be viewed as taking driving lessons. Of course, the key is to adopt a healthy diet which facilitates maintenance of proper weight without too much reliance on fighting hunger, which is occasionally needed with any diet, but unsustainable long term. To use the driving analogy, one would want to complete the lessons and get the driving licence, but then - from the health and safety perspective - it's best adopt a safe driving style and continue sticking to the rules instead of pushing the envelope and midnight drag racing on public roads. OK, perhaps not the best metaphor for midnight binging on booze, fries, steaks and burgers

 

[All uphill]

Agreed, there’s a lot of trial and error involved. You can only go off what food packets and fitness trackers/apps tell you unless you have access to a lab.

When I started to lose weight I used to calorie count, and it was a bit frustrating logging everything down and all that so I can see why people give up with it. But it did seem to work for me. It’s particularly key when doing this method that people are brutally honest about their calorie intake/expenditure, which ties in to taking full responsibility for what they put in their mouth.
I’m more of a mindful eater these days so I don’t follow a diet as such nor count calories, and yes my weight fluctuates a little as a result but I understand why that is happening and I’m at peace with that.

I like that.

Mindful eating and being at peace with the results.

Sounds proper grown-up!

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I've been using
https://www.nhs.uk/better-health/lose-weight/

My wife and I started using that last year and between March and Christmas I lost 11kg while she lost 22kg. It was the easiest thing we’ve ever done and just came down to portion control. We still ate all of the foods we liked, only with a lowered daily calorie ceiling.

Over that time she has put together a stack of printed recipes with calorie amounts already included, so we know what every meal gives us without having to count the components each time.

Definitely the most effective method my wife has ever used. She’s so pleased to be back to the size she’s happy at (10) which she hasn’t been for 30 years.

 

[Saluki]

Interesting, looks like a more diet focused version of 8fit which I've been using for the adaptive workout plans when I can't get to the gym.
Both can actually tailor the meals to the specific higher-level dietary requirements, which is key. What I've found about the 8fit recipes though, is that, while delicious, they are too elaborate to be practical in the heat of action and on the daily basis. Occasionally helpful during weekends though.

I do a lot of batch cooking, using my multi cooker. For instance, my sausage and lentil stew (delicious by the way) for tea last night was made up to 4 portions. 1 for tea, 1 for tomorrow’s lunch at work and 2 for the freezer. I do this a lot with my low carb lasagne, low carb shepherds pie, fish pie etc. also with chilli, shakshuka, curry etc. I batch cook very few ‘carb refuel meals, except for maybe 2 or 3 portions of overnight oats.
The Bodycoach app, gives me loads of recipe choice for general and refuel meals, snacks too. 5 full workouts and 2 short workouts for every cycle, with all my macros worked out as I am way too lazy to do that.
There are many ‘lean in 15’ type recipes there. I have no need to spend hours in the kitchen.

 

[bonzobanana]

Fasting is actually synonymous with starvation - please refer to the definition and "Stages of starvation":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starvation

Even IF is technically stage II starvation, which indeed can be very well tolerated.

Reducing frequency of eating is also recommended by some prominent experts, no argument there.

As mentioned/agreed earlier, there is good research on the effects of autophagy. Benefits of fasting in terms of long term weight loss are less clear.

Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy intake, below the level needed to maintain an organism's life

That doesn't apply because there isn't malnutrition. You are reducing the frequency of eating which the body copes very well with. The human body is designed to cope easily without food for a few days and if you have fat reserves its no problem. You are just bringing the body back to a more natural eating frequency intermittantly just so you lose a bit of weight etc. Ultimately you are a allowing a few additional processes to operate that are suppressed by eating frequently so a huge amount of health benefits before you even consider the health benefits of losing weight. Fasting is not starvation as can be seen above 'severe deficiency' doesn't apply because you are nowhere near a level that could impact your life. In fact many of those processes will clean the body of toxins and destroy damaged cells so can enhance your health and extend your life. If you take your definition of fasting being starvation then just about every creature on this planet is starving and facing starvation because natural wild animals tend to eat far less frequently than us especially carnivorous or omnivore animals. They use a bit of body fat, then they eat, then they eat again, then there might a gap where they consume their own body fat etc, that is the natural process.

I guess its a question of modern lifestyle vs our natural evolved biology does the modern lifestyle of easy food availability improve our health or hinder it. Is it ok to just remove the natural times where animals don't have access to food or does that improve our health by having frequent food with the body always digesting food. I would say the evidence is strong for some fasting being very beneficial and a great aid to weight loss naturally.

 

[Fat Lars]

When it comes to losing weight, keeping it off in the long term, maintaining a healthy lifestyle and living a long life then we are all experts. The thing is we may all be experts but we cannot all be right. Winning the argument on here doesn't make you right particularly when you can get shut down by someone who doesn't agree with you, leaving the floor open so to speak.
So if you are very slim, very fit, take no medications and are very healthy with no aches or pain or diseases or medical conditions of any sort then you might have a handle on a lifestyle which is worthy of serious consideration. A keto diet with IF and regular exercise ticks all the boxes for me. The key is metabolic health and concerns a hormone called insulin.

 

[Etern4l]

Starvation is a severe deficiency in caloric energy intake, below the level needed to maintain an organism's life

Yeah, so for example 800kcal energy intake instead of 2000kcal could easily be construed as severe, and cannot be carried out indefinitely without the loss of the organism's life.

That doesn't apply because there isn't malnutrition.

There obviously is malnutrition in terms of macronutrients. That's the whole point of it, especially if the goal is to trigger autophagy. The organism is starved, so it breaks down its own tissue, so that it can later be rebuilt anew.

You are reducing the frequency of eating which the body copes very well with. The human body is designed to cope easily without food for a few days and if you have fat reserves its no problem. You are just bringing the body back to a more natural eating frequency intermittantly just so you lose a bit of weight etc.

Well, the body can cope, however, the way it does it has been determined by the evolution. If you put a contemporary Westerner in a time machine and drop them into the tundra 10,000 years ago, they would start "fasting" naturally straight away. Suppose they manage to acquire some food, they obviously are not going to waste it, so will eat as much as they can (which would usually not be a lot anyway). That's great, they would increase their chances of survival as a result.

If you subject the same person to fasting in the contemporary setting with abundant supply of food, when they come out of the fast they are likely to overeat and regain weight to compensate. Same mechanism, very different outcome due to the the environment change.

Ultimately you are a allowing a few additional processes to operate that are suppressed by eating frequently so a huge amount of health benefits before you even consider the health benefits of losing weight.

Well, the main process is actually called starvation response.

If you take your definition of fasting being starvation then just about every creature on this planet is starving and facing starvation because natural wild animals tend to eat far less frequently than us especially carnivorous or omnivore animals. They use a bit of body fat, then they eat, then they eat again, then there might a gap where they consume their own body fat etc, that is the natural process.

That depends on the species and their environment, but yes - many have to go through periods of starvation, some don't survive.

You can find more information in the following book:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=yD02C44uIDUC&pg=PA15&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false

As you can see right at the beginning, some researchers use the terms "starvation" and "fasting" interchangeably, some not. However, there is not a strict universally adopted rule on how to differentiate between the two.

I guess its a question of modern lifestyle vs our natural evolved biology does the modern lifestyle of easy food availability improve our health or hinder it. Is it ok to just remove the natural times where animals don't have access to food or does that improve our health by having frequent food with the body always digesting food. I would say the evidence is strong for some fasting being very beneficial and a great aid to weight loss naturally.

It's not even a question - there is overwhelming evidence of the currently prevailing Western lifestyle (particularly the fast food-based variety) being detrimental to health. Over 40% of Americans, the main authors of the Western lifestyle, are obese, something like 70% are overweight or worse. Britain looks only a little better.

Unfortunately, while there are some benefits of fasting in terms of cardiovascular health and potentially cell rejuvenation following starvation response (a lot of the research on that topic is based on indirect measures or animal studies), the research I have seen seems to suggest maintaining weight rapidly lost during a fast presents a considerable change. Anecdotally, I have observed this to be very much the case.

BTW I just spotted your post earlier. You reported losing 15kg in one month and hoping to lose a further 10kg per month. FYI The usually recommended safe and maintainable rate of weight loss is roughly up to about 2kg/month (0.5 kg/week).