UK Low Traffic or Car Free Neighbourhoods - best practice ?

[ClichéGuevara]

I haven't seen any sign of people being appalled that other people may change their behaviour. What people are getting annoyed about is that it will cost them significantly if they don't change their behaviour.

TBH, the biggest thing wrong with this Oxford scheme is that it feeds the conspiracy theorists. The conspiracy theorists have been up in arms claiming that the LTN schemes mean you will be restricted to staying within your "15 minute" area. And the Oxford scheme does head quite a long way in that direction.

As presented, the schemes are unlikely to achieve their aims as they simply move the problem elsewhere because the alternatives are not in place at a usable level.

 

[FishFright]

I haven't seen any sign of people being appalled that other people may change their behaviour. What people are getting annoyed about is that it will cost them significantly if they don't change their behaviour.

TBH, the biggest thing wrong with this Oxford scheme is that it feeds the conspiracy theorists. The conspiracy theorists have been up in arms claiming that the LTN schemes mean you will be restricted to staying within your "15 minute" area. And the Oxford scheme does head quite a long way in that direction.

How else will can that change that behaviour be made ? By saying please and handing out sweeties ?

 

[mjr]

In Oxford they will be find for travelling between zones more than 100 times a year.

SO if they live in one zone and work in another, and don't have rational public transport at their starting/ending times, they are effectively being fined for living in one place and working in another.

No, the limit is only on crossing the city filters in a car, not moving between zones. You can move between zones as often as you like, but you'd have to take a car via the ring road once you've crossed the centre in it 100 times, or use a lighter vehicle.

 

[Alex321]

Then they would have to change their behaviour , ie what this idea is all about.
We all want quieter , safer roads and cleaner air but some folk think this will have to happen without anyone driving less. If you can square that circle you're probably ill.

No, the idea if LTNs is indeed for people to be driving less.

But it should be done by encouragement (e.g. making most of the things you currently take short car journeys for available without needing the car) and if necessary selective blocking of roads.

IMV, fining people for driving to work isn't the answer.

 

[Alex321]

No, the limit is only on crossing the city filters in a car, not moving between zones. You can move between zones as often as you like, but you'd have to take a car via the ring road once you've crossed the centre in it 100 times, or use a lighter vehicle.

Ah, that is different to what that article suggested. If you can avoid it counting against your 100 per year by going out to the ring road then back in from it when you reach the required zone, that is much better.

 

[FishFright]

No, the idea if LTNs is indeed for people to be driving less.

But it should be done by encouragement (e.g. making most of the things you currently take short car journeys for available without needing the car) and if necessary selective blocking of roads.

IMV, fining people for driving to work isn't the answer.

That's the rub really , motorists want the world to change before they have to change themselves. And they won't unless a good portion of stick is applied.

 

[Alex321]

That's the rub really , motorists People want the world to change before they have to change themselves.

Corrected it for you.

But it is generally true that encouraging desired behaviour tends to work better than discouraging undesired behaviour.

 

[FishFright]

Corrected it for you.

True and they won't voluntarily unless that change adds up to nothing changing .

 

[mjr]

Ah, that is different to what that article suggested. If you can avoid it counting against your 100 per year by going out to the ring road then back in from it when you reach the required zone, that is much better.

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/traffic-filters

The half assed news reporting isn't helping matters, no.

There are problems with the Oxford plan IMO, including the piecemeal way it's being implemented, the 100 free passes per year for residents, and the LTN zones being narrow arterial corridors instead of rounder zones like Leuven or Ghent, but they're much smaller problems than the madness they're accused of.

 

[Alex321]

https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/residents/roads-and-transport/connecting-oxfordshire/traffic-filters

The half assed news reporting isn't helping matters, no.

There are problems with the Oxford plan IMO, including the piecemeal way it's being implemented, the 100 free passes per year for residents, and the LTN zones being narrow arterial corridors instead of rounder zones like Leuven or Ghent, but they're much smaller problems than the madness they're accused of.

Thanks for that link.

That is actually way better than the news report made it appear. From the article it seemed you needed a permit to travel from one zone to another, when in fact it is only to use 6 specific roads.

 

[wafter]

I thought studies of some London LTNs showed they do in fact achieve those aims, confirming results from other countries like Spain and France. Sounds like Oxford have messed theirs up and need to fix the faults, not u turn.

If that is the case it certainly doesn't seem that way on the ground. As I said previously the implementation has been terrible, just like anything else to do with transport infrastructure in the city. They've had several goes at the Botley road since I've been in the area and it's still shite. Each time millions of pounds chucked at arguably making it slightly better for cyclists.

I don't think anyone mentioned a U-turn, however it's no doubt a compelling arguement for the nay-sayers given what a mess it is currently.

 

[toffee]

In Oxford they will be find for travelling between zones more than 100 times a year.

No, only if they go a certain way by car. You can still drive to any place by car as many times as you like.

The hope is you will find it easier to walk, cycle or take the bus.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

In Oxford they will be find for travelling between zones more than 100 times a year.

You’ll be fined for walking or cycling between zones more than 100 times a year?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

You've yet to demonstrate that it isn't true, beyond you just claiming it to be the case, so I'll refer you back to the aforementioned quote.

I do find it interesting when people try to hone in on one small part of a larger point in an attempt to discredit it. It's very revealing.

Enjoy this strange argument you're having with yourself.

If you claim something to be true then it is up to you to demonstrate that it is. If it were true, in just one case; you’d have proved your point. The deafening silence from your end is telling.

P.S. If you wave good bye then the expectation is that you are leaving 🤣

 

[T4tomo]

If that is the case it certainly doesn't seem that way on the ground. As I said previously the implementation has been terrible, just like anything else to do with transport infrastructure in the city. They've had several goes at the Botley road since I've been in the area and it's still shite. Each time millions of pounds chucked at arguably making it slightly better for cyclists.

I don't think anyone mentioned a U-turn, however it's no doubt a compelling arguement for the nay-sayers given what a mess it is currently.

Oxford and traffic has always ben an issue though , as the city centre roads, particularly the inner ring (not the ring road) bit is woefully narrow and twisty, but there are some substantial old buildings not allowing any expansion of it, even if that were desirable. if you want to get anywhere quickly, a bike was always the answer, not a car.

Everything possible should be done to discourage people driving anywhere near the city centre, and this latest scheme is aiming to do that.

I went back in December having not been there for years and having the High and Broad street etc essentially closed to private cars has made it a lot better. We used the park and ride from Headington, which was fine except the bus got snarled up with other traffic around St Clements.

I agree there should be carrots as well as sticks, but I have little sympathy with the citizens of Oxford getting up in arms about the overall aims of scheme,namely diverting car traffic away from the congested centre and encouraging people to use buses and bikes / shanks pony instead, particularly as those opposed to it are spreading massive misinformation about it.