UK Low Traffic or Car Free Neighbourhoods - best practice ?

[mjr]

'Fined' 'Charged' call it what you will it amounts to the same thing.

Are you also angry at people being fined for taking ownership of bikes? 🤣

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Are you also angry at people being fined for taking ownership of bikes? 🤣

I think that's what is described as a non sequitur.

 

[mjr]

You've yet to demonstrate that it isn't true,

Please explain how anyone can prove something isn't happening, even when it isn't?

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Please explain how anyone can prove something isn't happening, even when it isn't?

If you want to believe that statement is true, I don't want to be the one to shatter your dreams.

As I said, it's interesting to see people trying to hone in on one minor issue of a wider point.

 

[mjr]

I think that's what is described as a non sequitur.

It's really not. Fined and charged are the same, right? So you must think you're fined for each drink in a pub. This is really an absurd claim.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

It's really not. Fined and charged are the same, right? So you must think you're fined for each drink in a pub. This is really an absurd claim.

Are they? It's an interesting view, but not one I hold, so feel free to join t'other fella in this bizarre game of arguing against yourself.

I don't think you'll learn much that way, but if it makes you happy...

 

[FishFright]

Every time something happens that could encourage motorists to change their behaviour some people are appalled that other people may change their behaviour.
Driving is a privilege not a right. Also a cost is not a fine just because it's a car.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Every time something happens that could encourage motorists to change their behaviour some people are appalled that other people may change their behaviour.
Driving is a privilege not a right. Also a cost is not a fine just because it's a car.

I don't disagree, my main point before it got sidetracked with irrelevances was that there are probably better ways of encouraging that, and making sure that the components expected of a 15 minute neighbourhood are in place before applying penalties, or it's pretty much impossible for people to comply with the claimed aim.

 

[Alex321]

But who is being fined / charged for living, playing and working in an area? Must be a few newspaper articles on such a thing but can’t find it. If you could share where you read of these things. Ta

In Oxford they will be find for travelling between zones more than 100 times a year.

SO if they live in one zone and work in another, and don't have rational public transport at their starting/ending times, they are effectively being fined for living in one place and working in another.

 

[FishFright]

I don't disagree, my main point was that there are probably better ways of encouraging that, and making sure that the components expected of a 15 minute neighbourhood are in place before applying penalties, or it's pretty much impossible for people to comply with the claimed aim.

Making all the changes up front in the vain hope that motorists might change their behavior at some point is never going to happen so lets give this one a try and see how it works out.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

In Oxford they will be find for travelling between zones more than 100 times a year.

SO if they live in one zone and work in another, and don't have rational public transport at their starting/ending times, they are effectively being fined for living in one place and working in another.

As I mentioned earlier, the same argument applies to other similar charging schemes around the country. I doubt most people are travelling aimlessly through those places, and are travelling for a variety of needs that don't have a reasonable alternative.

My argument is pretty much that those alternatives need to be in place and affordable before the costs can be seen as fair.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Making all the changes up front in the vain hope that motorists might change their behavior at some point is never going to happen so lets give this one a try and see how it works out.

And yet in places where they did set the infrastructure first, they've had a far better take up and far less angst.

 

[Alex321]

Every time something happens that could encourage motorists to change their behaviour some people are appalled that other people may change their behaviour.
Driving is a privilege not a right. Also a cost is not a fine just because it's a car.

I haven't seen any sign of people being appalled that other people may change their behaviour. What people are getting annoyed about is that it will cost them significantly if they don't change their behaviour.

TBH, the biggest thing wrong with this Oxford scheme is that it feeds the conspiracy theorists. The conspiracy theorists have been up in arms claiming that the LTN schemes mean you will be restricted to staying within your "15 minute" area. And the Oxford scheme does head quite a long way in that direction.

 

[FishFright]

In Oxford they will be find for travelling between zones more than 100 times a year.

SO if they live in one zone and work in another, and don't have rational public transport at their starting/ending times, they are effectively being fined for living in one place and working in another.

Then they would have to change their behaviour , ie what this idea is all about.
We all want quieter , safer roads and cleaner air but some folk think this will have to happen without anyone driving less. If you can square that circle you're probably ill.

 

[FishFright]

And yet in places where they did set the infrastructure first, they've had a far better take up and far less angst.

Examples ? In the UK if possible.