Turbo training

[Winnershsaint]

Like Rob3rt said. Once you are used to that, make some sessions longer sweet spot (40-90 minutes) continuously, and maybe one/two a week at hard threshold. The principle to bear in mind is continuous increase in training load, so as to promote overload and resulting adaptations.

Your body is very inventive at finding ways of taking it easy, and it's your mind's job to keep finding additional ways of providing training stress.

Thanks for clarifying that. I have started to use this on recommendation of a friend.
http://www.flammerouge.je/.
Currently working on tempo intervals which are currently at 12½ minutes each at the lower end of the sweetspot. Each interval has three minutes recovery time. Session tops out at 3 x 15 minutes which I will do at the weekend. If I am reading things correctly, and I am by no means an expert or anything more than an a very average middle aged cyclist, it suggests that the greatest benefits in increasing FTP are to be found by working at the middle of threshold level suggesting that workouts out that fall either side of this produce diminishing returns on FTP improvement to the point where at recovery pace or at sprinting pace the effects are negligible. It also points out that physiologically working at this level there comes a point where the strain on the body increases while sustainable volume decreases. Effectively saying that working in the middle of the threshold level gives the best returns but at a price. The price being over-training and going backwards rather than forwards.

 

[VamP]

The sweetspot is all about maximizing training adaptation, for the largest sustainable volume of training. If you don't have much time, increase the intensity. Conversely if you have a lot of time throw in some long slow rides too. While training above FTP will not lead to large FTP improvements, it is essential for improving the body's adaptation for operating above the FTP. Which is what happens in racing. If all you want to do is cruise at close to FTP, then focus on raising FTP. If you want to be the complete cyclist, work all the systems.

This (famous) diagram shows the sweetspot in context of different training zones, showing the training effect and physiological strain interaction:

This diagram shows impact of training in different zones on the physiological systems.

Your personal training mix should start from where you are now, your fitness, your strengths and weaknesses; incorporate how much training time you have available, and incorporate those elements that will achieve the biggest impact for the kind of riding that you want to get better at.

 

[biggs682]

must admit i had a 20 min session on tues night and spent 2 mins doing gentle spinning and 1 min at high revolutions and just kept repeating it as often as i could , best work out since using turbo , just need to get out in to garage more often where poss

 

[Winnershsaint]

The sweetspot is all about maximizing training adaptation, for the largest sustainable volume of training. If you don't have much time, increase the intensity. Conversely if you have a lot of time throw in some long slow rides too. While training above FTP will not lead to large FTP improvements, it is essential for improving the body's adaptation for operating above the FTP. Which is what happens in racing. If all you want to do is cruise at close to FTP, then focus on raising FTP. If you want to be the complete cyclist, work all the systems.

This (famous) diagram shows the sweetspot in context of different training zones, showing the training effect and physiological strain interaction:

View attachment 34229


This diagram shows impact of training in different zones on the physiological systems.

View attachment 34230

Your personal training mix should start from where you are now, your fitness, your strengths and weaknesses; incorporate how much training time you have available, and incorporate those elements that will achieve the biggest impact for the kind of riding that you want to get better at.

Yes. I don't want to give the impression that it is just about improving FTP, it isn't. My training plan is all about all round improvement. Coupled with the base pace stuff are cascade sessions which have shorter interval times but are very definitely designed as threshold intervals even though http://www.flammerouge.je/ doesn't specify any particular speed/power (using fluid resistance turbo trainer with speed as proxy). There are also sessions designed to improve sprinting speed and TT , but they are not really what I am about improving at this point. As of tomorrow I will have a HRM with a Garmin Edge 500 with speed and cadence so it will be interesting to see what data I get out from that.

 

[BigonaBianchi]

http://www.cyclechat.net/threads/team-bkool-cyclechat.144689/page-4

any bkoolers? join us

 

[Winnershsaint]

Did the 3 x 15 min intervals this afternoon. 3 minutes seems an inordinately short time to recover. Anyway, managed to get new Edge 500 working and did my intervals at roughly the same pace, although forgot to press lap button at start of the first 15 minutes so only had lap info for last two intervals. In terms of speed I was around 0.5 mph slower than suggested by Equipe Flamme Rouge but cadence averaged out at 85 rpm which is just about OK.

 

[Brad123]

So far this week I have been working Hard on the turbo. Monday Did 3 x 10 Tuesday 4 x 5 And today 2 x 10 ran out of time. Hoping to do 2 x 20 tomorrow. The amount of water that come out of me. Don't know were it comes from. Yes I do have a fan. Dose any one know how to stop me from looking at the clock courting down. The last minute of any interval my leg just want to die.
So far I am enjoying it. like the pain in a strange way.
This morning on my 2nd interval I put it in a harder gear and push hard. After 2 minute, just wanted to change to a easy gear. but told my self just 1 more minute and some how made it to 10 minute. Felt good that I made it.

 

[Dusty Bin]

This morning on my 2nd interval I put it in a harder gear and push hard. After 2 minute, just wanted to change to a easy gear. but told my self just 1 more minute and some how made it to 10 minute. Felt good that I made it.

If you need to push harder in an interval, then you weren't pushing hard enough to start with.

 

[Rob3rt]

If you need to push harder in an interval, then you weren't pushing hard enough to start with.

It is better to start just below the intensity you are aiming for so you have somewhere to go, rather than go to hard, blow up and have to end the interval. Or have I misunderstood what you mean?

 

[Dusty Bin]

Did the 3 x 15 min intervals this afternoon. 3 minutes seems an inordinately short time to recover.

Why only 3 minutes for recovery? The training element is the 15 minute bit. Use as much time as you need to recover, or else you may not be able to complete the next interval at the required effort. I usually spin for about 10 mins in between 2x20s

 

[Rob3rt]

Between 15 minute intervals I would recover for 5-8 minutes.

 

[Dusty Bin]

It is better to start just below the intensity you are aiming for so you have somewhere to go, rather than go to hard, blow up and have to end the interval. Or have I misunderstood what you mean?

True, but it sounds as though he pushed a lot harder, which suggests that the effort level was way off...

 

[VamP]

The duration of the rest period is as important to the overall workout impact as the duration of the interval itself. I agree that 3 minutes seems short, unless the purpose of the workout is to train your ability to recover between intervals at a cost to the threshold training component. I too would recover between 5 to 10 minutes for threshold intervals typically.

 

[Brad123]

It is better to start just below the intensity you are aiming for so you have somewhere to go, rather than go to hard, blow up and have to end the interval. Or have I misunderstood what you mean?

That what I try do.
The interval I was holding 20 to 21 mph @ about 100 cadence. The 2nd interval the same speed but change gears now cadence was @ about 85. Which was a lot harder to hold that speed (I got a cycleops fluid turbo)

True, but it sounds as though he pushed a lot harder, which suggests that the effort level was way off...

I was finish after the first interval but the 2nd one I did feel. Don't think I could have done the first one any harder

 

[Rob3rt]

That what I try do.
The interval I was holding 20 to 21 mph @ about 100 cadence. The 2nd interval the same speed but change gears now cadence was @ about 85. Which was a lot harder to hold that speed (I got a cycleops fluid turbo)

I was finish after the first interval but the 2nd one I did feel. Don't think I could have done the first one any harder

20-21 mph at 100 rpm is no different to 20-21 mph @ 85 rpm in power terms.