Trying to identify a Nippy Commute/Sportive/Audax/Light Tourer

[Capuchin]

How about a Moulton TSR 30? All the gears you could want, comfortable over long distances, nippy, light.

That would be serious cool points, but i dont think i could pull it off.

Popped into local evans, managed to get a guy that seemed somewhat knowledgable, started spewing angles and toptube lengths at me i dont know what was going on. His opinion was that a modern aluminium frame is designed well enough to soak up bumps and tend to have a better design than steel bikes which tend to have more traditional frames... or something.

He was recommending a cannondale CAAD8/Synapse or Bianchi Nirone, and mentioned he was taking his Nirone on LEJOG and expecting it to be pretty comfortable, but faster than his friends very similar steel bike (i think he was highlighting the difference geometries can make).
I'm taking the charge juicer out for a test with a friend who's trying a slightly lower specced synapse so we can swap on friday.

So, was it marketing shpiel?
I think I would be able to cope with a saddlebag and some crud guards if this is an option.

Definitely heading into london on the weekend anyway for a day of bike filled indulgence, but i feel like i should make my mind up soon

 

[eldudino]

I've got a Kinesis Racelight T for a winter bike and a Verenti Millook summer bike, both are great at what they do. The Kinesis frame was bought for toughness and it's ability to take full guards, you won't even get Crud Roadracers on the Millook. The Kinesis comes in under 10kg and the Millok at 8.4, the difference is noticeable. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend either bike. Though I would like to change the Tiagra on the Kinesis for Sram!

 

[Capuchin]

Holy Cow, Just got back from test riding - Ended up test riding a genesis equilibrium and a cannondale synapse. I really enjoyed both in different ways.

The steel genesis just floated even along the canal tow path, and i rode it first and found it plenty fast. Took it for a climb and it handled admirably, much better than my singlecross.

The cannondale had sora instead of tiagra and i could tell, and as expected didnt soak the bumps so well, however I really didnt care. I was having so much fun i forgot several times that i was cycling with my friend and he was well behind me. Climbed much better than the genesis too. I am wondering how much fun i would be having on it after 8 hours though.

looking forward to my bike fuelled london adventure tomorrow so much more now. how on earth am i goign to make up my mind?

 

[frank9755]

You have to remember what you want the bike for - comfortable for 10 minutes doesn't mean comfortable for all day.

Agree that frame material is not such a big deal, the Cannondale Al frames are very good and the Synapse has a longer head tube (I hired a CAAD10 for a week in Gran Canaria in January and really liked it, and I have an Aluminium / Carbon composite Cannondale TT bike - they are nice bikes and smooth to ride).

But the issue is clearance for comfortable tyres - which makes more difference to how the bike feels than anything. For commuting and Audax you want at least 25mm tyres and you want mudguards. I just don't think those frames will give you it. If they will it will be a squeeze, something will always be rubbing and you might end up with something like raceblades, which are a poor compromise.

A proper frame for audax / commuting / touring should take at least 28s and mudguards.

 

[Capuchin]

Epic cycles are recommending the kinesis tk2 frame, which i'm tempted to agree on. Looks like a magnificent frame. Keen to use them for the free bike fit too which will make a world of difference. thoughts?

 

[frank9755]

Looks like a good choice

 

[GrumpyGregry]

The kinesis tk2 looks spot on.

frank9755 knows more about most stuff than I do so I'd be interested in his and your thoughts on this.... I'd go for a carbon fork with alloy steerer (Alpina do one that is perfect) and leave the steerer long. This gives you way more ability to get the bars where you will find them most comfy for hour-after-hour sportive/audax style riding than a short chop job and then once you've sorted yourself the sweet spot, after hours of riding, you can get you LBS to cut them down.

well it is what I did with my Surosa (except, being a cheap skake I've left the steerer "too long")

oh yeah; 28s and mudguards are where it is at for mile eating at pace. in my opinion anyway.

 

[frank9755]

I'd go for a carbon fork with alloy steerer (Alpina do one that is perfect) and leave the steerer long. This gives you way more ability to get the bars where you will find them most comfy for hour-after-hour sportive/audax style riding than a short chop job and then once you've sorted yourself the sweet spot, after hours of riding, you can get you LBS to cut them down.

well it is what I did with my Surosa (except, being a cheap skake I've left the steerer "too long")

oh yeah; 28s and mudguards are where it is at for mile eating at pace. in my opinion anyway.

Just seen this: Greg, you are too kind!

I think the most important thing is that the OP is going to get a fitting so they will guide him to the best bar height. Need to emphasise the type of cycling that it is going to be used for so they don't make it too aggressive.
Good idea to leave a bit of adjustment in the steerer, but you could argue that if you have it right then you will never need it, so cut if you are confident! (FWIW mine has a bit of extra so I could raise if needed).

I don't know much about that frame and couldn't say how it would compare to anything else but I believe that there is relatively little difference between modern frames, and that one is the right design (clearance) and has enough good things written about it so a perfectly sensible choice.

Where there is a difference is in the wheels. For audaxing, nice hand-built wheels with decent hubs (105 or better) are a joy and are faster than entry level wheels because the bearings have less resistance. Factory-built ones can be perfectly fine for commuting too, just harder to fix if you have a spoke problem when you are out on the road.

Tyres probably make most difference to the feel of the bike. I am still trying to find the best trade-off for me between puncture resistance, comfort and speed, so won't try to advise on that - but the main thing is the option to go fatter if needed.

Good luck with the new bike!

 

[P.H]

No advice on what bike, but only good things to say about Epic Cycles, fitting, advice and as long a test ride as you'd like on lovely lanes. I'd also be tempted to look at the Genesis Equibrium as well as the Kenesis, I don't think I've even seen on but it ticks a lot of your boxes.

 

[Capuchin]

No advice on what bike, but only good things to say about Epic Cycles, fitting, advice and as long a test ride as you'd like on lovely lanes. I'd also be tempted to look at the Genesis Equibrium as well as the Kenesis, I don't think I've even seen on but it ticks a lot of your boxes.

I took the equilibrium for a test ride from evans. Was a really comfortable ride and tempting bike. The guy i'm talking to at epic says that the TK2 is even more comfortable(!), while being more responsive and lighter. I'm not sure i believe it's more comfortable, if it is this must be one hell of an alu frame.

Going to london this weekend to have a look around condor, on yer bike etc but i think they would have to convince me big time to change my mind. (better half drooling over a fratello for herself so not a wasted trip!)

I think i will stick with the default tiagra build here to save money for other stuff as i'm looking into shoes, saddlebags etc. Only thing i'm a little worried about since reading frank's post are the wheels. They dont seem to have the best reviews. Is it just a case of theiy'll do for shorter rides (~200km is probably the max i will do this year) and then i can upgrade them as i work up to longer stuff? Seems like if it does all that epic are saying it will it's a solid frame to build upon in future.

Many thanks for all your advice. It's made a hell of a difference for a newbie wanting to do more!

 

[frank9755]

Only thing i'm a little worried about since reading frank's post are the wheels. They dont seem to have the best reviews. Is it just a case of theiy'll do for shorter rides (~200km is probably the max i will do this year) and then i can upgrade them as i work up to longer stuff? Seems like if it does all that epic are saying it will it's a solid frame to build upon in future.

Mixed reviews, but personally I think those WHR-500s are fine. I did a 400km audax on a set (but just retired them the other day at 3000 miles as the rear started to show some cracks around a spoke eye (front is fine))

When you get some better ones you'll appreciate them but those will be ok to be going on with.


I don't think you'll find a bike in the London shops to make you change your mind!

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I took the equilibrium for a test ride from evans. Was a really comfortable ride and tempting bike. The guy i'm talking to at epic says that the TK2 is even more comfortable(!), while being more responsive and lighter. I'm not sure i believe it's more comfortable, if it is this must be one hell of an alu frame.

Going to london this weekend to have a look around condor, on yer bike etc but i think they would have to convince me big time to change my mind. (better half drooling over a fratello for herself so not a wasted trip!)

I think i will stick with the default tiagra build here to save money for other stuff as i'm looking into shoes, saddlebags etc. Only thing i'm a little worried about since reading frank's post are the wheels. They dont seem to have the best reviews. Is it just a case of theiy'll do for shorter rides (~200km is probably the max i will do this year) and then i can upgrade them as i work up to longer stuff? Seems like if it does all that epic are saying it will it's a solid frame to build upon in future.

Many thanks for all your advice. It's made a hell of a difference for a newbie wanting to do more!

The stock Shimano wheels will be fine to start with. When they wear out replace them. I confess to having invested in a spare set of lighter racier wheels for my Surosa, with less spokes than standard and a closer ratio cassette. Not the best investment ever since I find I only use them for the odd club 10- or 25-mile TT or on special summer Sundays and even then I can't be arsed to take the rack and guards off! (and how that makes our competition secretary howl!)

I'd be inclined to ask them about building up a Veloce equiped bike for £1000 and see what wheels you'd get for that money. (Ambrosio hubs and rims with DT swiss spokes is do-able at that price) I find I much prefer Campag groups over Shimano on the road esp over longer rides. What with me being me and being my age and lamentable fitness I'd want a triple over a compact as well..... 300km in with the North Downs still to cross to get home, a granny ring comes in handy as a bail out.

 

[Capuchin]

The stock Shimano wheels will be fine to start with. When they wear out replace them. I confess to having invested in a spare set of lighter racier wheels for my Surosa, with less spokes than standard and a closer ratio cassette. Not the best investment ever since I find I only use them for the odd club 10- or 25-mile TT or on special summer Sundays and even then I can't be arsed to take the rack and guards off! (and how that makes our competition secretary howl!)

I'd be inclined to ask them about building up a Veloce equiped bike for £1000 and see what wheels you'd get for that money. (Ambrosio hubs and rims with DT swiss spokes is do-able at that price) I find I much prefer Campag groups over Shimano on the road esp over longer rides. What with me being me and being my age and lamentable fitness I'd want a triple over a compact as well..... 300km in with the North Downs still to cross to get home, a granny ring comes in handy as a bail out.

the veloce build + fulcrum racing 7 wheels for an extra £125. Not sure how worth it it is: my only experience with different gears has been tiagra and sora and tiagra seemed way better. Guy in evans showed me sram and campag for 20 secs but that's about it.

I am thinking about a triple, not sure how convinced i am of my youth and fitness . My only experience climbing with gears was dying half way up a hill in san diego (probably because i was so used to using bloodymindedness on my 50-16 singlespeed) so it's hard to judge what i'll need.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

Tiagra is def better than Sora (I have Sora on my 'proper' tourer) though there is nothing wrong with either. It all works.

My veloce+campag race triple+wide range cassette on the surosa is efficient, intuitive (and I don't find that with Tiagra) more comfortable on the hoods, and better built I feel.

With roots in MTB I used to be Capt. Shimano. But not anymore.

Compacts are, as a rule of thumb, great for Sportives and the MAMIL's that take part, but I swear by the psychological comfort blanket of that inner ring. (which I have not yet used this year!) A setup that works adequately on a waymarked 100km route ridden with mates can become highly irksome on a DIY 200km ridden on your todd.

On another point. Probably more important than compact vs triple. The most important bits of the bike for distance work are the contact points. Saddle. Pedals. Bars (and that includes bar covering for me). Make sure you spec them right. and you'll want decent shoes to go with the pedals. Even if it fits perfectly if you and your saddle don't get on, or the pedals give you hot spots, or the bars give you white fingers you'll never extract maximum enjoyment from your long rides and may have to endure a lot of pain and discomfort..

 

[Capuchin]

I tried the spesh secteur elite this weekend and absolutely loved it. Would still like to give epic and the kinesis a go but it has a real stiff contender here! (better half might have fallen in love with a condor too )

Fell in love with sram too. I have no idea how they get that action to work, it's like magic.

Don't worry greg, deifinatly having room in the budget for ensuring contact points are good