Training for hills when you don't have any?

[lukesdad]

I disagree on that, the Tamisn trail is a doddle compared to the road round the park

In what way ?

Ride a lap of both then post your times, and we ll have a look

 

[marzjennings]

You are going to have to find hills, simple. Hill climbing is not like riding on the flat with more resistance (big gears/tyres) - there is a technique too.

Circuits of that bump called Box hill might help.

No it is just more resistance. Spinning at 80-100rpm whether up hill or on the flat is just the same motion. If climbing a hill requires 250watts of constant power it is possible to replicate the same power output on the flat.

 

[the_mikey]

http://bikecalculator.com/veloMetric.html


This bike calculator may be useful, if you can figure out your average power output and know your weight, you can then calculate your sustainable speed up a hill (if you know how steep it is)

 

[cyclingsheep]

Thanks for all your responses. Sadly finding hills (as is suggested in the title) is something I can only do very occasionally, I don't class anything in Richmond Park as a hill. As far as resistance goes I am often towing my daughter in her Croozer trailer on the back of the mtb so getting onto the road bike after that feels great. I know I have 6months to get into shape so am not panicking yet. What goals should I be setting myself at the end of each month?

 

[trj977]

Hi no advice as I am crap at climbing. Not in the same league as to what you are taking on but hopefully these may help you.

I cannot remember where I picked up this link but it may help you in planning a route with lots of climbs.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie...081460404632274986.000001130c1756fcc590a&z=11


There is also the Surrey Legs of Steel circuit, the link below gives an overview of the climbing involved.

http://www.cyclosport.org/event/17-...l-dave-aitchison-challenge-ride/profiles.html


Best of luck.

 

[Fiona N]

No it is just more resistance. Spinning at 80-100rpm whether up hill or on the flat is just the same motion. If climbing a hill requires 250watts of constant power it is possible to replicate the same power output on the flat.

It seems to me Marzjennings that you've never actually been on an Alpine climb

Producing 250w on the flat for even an hour is no great problem but that's not the problem anyway. As ColinJ, Lukesdad and ?Fossy said, the angle of the slope comes into play and while 10% doesn't sound much and probably won't affect you too badly over say 3 or 4 kms by the time you're up to 25+km, and especially the second or third time at 25+km, it makes a huge difference. Basically it rolls your pelvis back, which accentuates what your hamstrings are doing already because of the hill climbing, which you counteract by pulling forwards on the handlebars. This stretches the lumbar spine - or particularly the muscles from the hamstrings to the lower back. Keeping the muscles stretched while expecting them to contract hard keeping the pelvis stable against the pull of the glutes and hamstrings is what gives many people back ache on long climbs.

If you only ride on the flat you can probably get away without doing much training for this. But if you want to ride well on long gradients, you have to accustom your muscles to the effects of gravity. If you can't train on hills, an option that I've used successfully as early season conditioning when I used to race in the Swiss and Italian Alps is getting some specific training in the gym. It's more than just core stability, you need to accustom the long muscles of the back to some hard graft and develop the muscular endurance. But do get some advice first on how to go about this - the last thing you want is to wreck your back in the gym

 

[fossyant]

No it is just more resistance. Spinning at 80-100rpm whether up hill or on the flat is just the same motion. If climbing a hill requires 250watts of constant power it is possible to replicate the same power output on the flat.

It's not the same - Colin mentioned inertia as well.

Anyway I don't spin up hills - if I can do 80rpm or more up a hill, a hill it is not !

If the op just practiced on the flat, no matter how fast/powerful he was, he still needs hill training. So find a hill - difficult in the South though

 

[ColinJ]

It's not the same - Colin mentioned inertia as well.

Wasn't it more about having to maintain momentum!

 

[Ghost Donkey]

Producing 250w on the flat for even an hour is no great problem but that's not the problem anyway. As ColinJ, Lukesdad and ?Fossy said, the angle of the slope comes into play and while 10% doesn't sound much and probably won't affect you too badly over say 3 or 4 kms by the time you're up to 25+km, and especially the second or third time at 25+km, it makes a huge difference. Basically it rolls your pelvis back, which accentuates what your hamstrings are doing already because of the hill climbing, which you counteract by pulling forwards on the handlebars. This stretches the lumbar spine - or particularly the muscles from the hamstrings to the lower back. Keeping the muscles stretched while expecting them to contract hard keeping the pelvis stable against the pull of the glutes and hamstrings is what gives many people back ache on long climbs.

Does using a turbo on a home made incline go any way to replicating this? It's flat where I live. I do visit family in Colin J's neck of the woods but not often enough to become a good climber. As he has said there are big hills but they don't go on forever. I did the climb out of Halifax three times in a row for instance on that part of my route last visit.

 

[cyclingsheep]

So having taken on board everyones advice I think I'm getting some idea of what is needed. Another question, The Fred Whitton challenge has a similar distance to Etape Act2 and a similar amount of climbing. Given that it is possible to do it all year round would this be a good indicator of my preparation for the Etape next year or because the Fred Whitton challenge is more undulating is it not a good base guide?

 

[Glover Fan]

I think the Fred Whitton would be a fair challenge, but even though I have not ridden in the alps the climbs of cumbria are probably a lot steeper, but shorter.

 

[david1701]

Thanks for all your responses. Sadly finding hills (as is suggested in the title) is something I can only do very occasionally, I don't class anything in Richmond Park as a hill. As far as resistance goes I am often towing my daughter in her Croozer trailer on the back of the mtb so getting onto the road bike after that feels great. I know I have 6months to get into shape so am not panicking yet. What goals should I be setting myself at the end of each month?

maybe try climbing heavily with the trailer on your road bike, maybe swap the daughter for some rocks to save your marriage

 

[marzjennings]

It seems to me Marzjennings that you've never actually been on an Alpine climb

Producing 250w on the flat for even an hour is no great problem but that's not the problem anyway. As ColinJ, Lukesdad and ?Fossy said, the angle of the slope comes into play and while 10% doesn't sound much and probably won't affect you too badly over say 3 or 4 kms by the time you're up to 25+km, and especially the second or third time at 25+km, it makes a huge difference. Basically it rolls your pelvis back, which accentuates what your hamstrings are doing already because of the hill climbing, which you counteract by pulling forwards on the handlebars. This stretches the lumbar spine - or particularly the muscles from the hamstrings to the lower back. Keeping the muscles stretched while expecting them to contract hard keeping the pelvis stable against the pull of the glutes and hamstrings is what gives many people back ache on long climbs.

If you only ride on the flat you can probably get away without doing much training for this. But if you want to ride well on long gradients, you have to accustom your muscles to the effects of gravity. If you can't train on hills, an option that I've used successfully as early season conditioning when I used to race in the Swiss and Italian Alps is getting some specific training in the gym. It's more than just core stability, you need to accustom the long muscles of the back to some hard graft and develop the muscular endurance. But do get some advice first on how to go about this - the last thing you want is to wreck your back in the gym

Alps, no. High Atlas, Banff, Whistler, Cascades, Trinidad, yes. Plenty of multi hour climbing either racing, touring or for fun. And I'm trying to work out why my experience does not match yours.

a, mostly mountain biking, so slightly lower seat position and more upright position and so extenuation of the hamstring due to increased slope is less prevalent.

b, on the road I ride almost always either on the drops or in a tri position, very rarely up on the hoods or bar tops. So a simple lift to hoods will mitigate the hamstring stretch again.

c, lots of gym time, and so as you suggest a strong core and back does help with climbing ( I was a gym rat before avid cyclist)

I still say that high resistive training on the flat (pushing a high gear) will help with climbing (helps me), but I concede that in the end nothing beats actually training for climbing (especially longer climbs) than actual riding a hill/mountain/10 story packing garage (it's all I've got around here).

 

[lukesdad]

Thanks for all your responses. Sadly finding hills (as is suggested in the title) is something I can only do very occasionally, I don't class anything in Richmond Park as a hill. As far as resistance goes I am often towing my daughter in her Croozer trailer on the back of the mtb so getting onto the road bike after that feels great. I know I have 6months to get into shape so am not panicking yet. What goals should I be setting myself at the end of each month?

Richmond park was only given as an example of "any" training ground, you have to work with what you ve got.

 

[lukesdad]

Does using a turbo on a home made incline go any way to replicating this? It's flat where I live. I do visit family in Colin J's neck of the woods but not often enough to become a good climber. As he has said there are big hills but they don't go on forever. I did the climb out of Halifax three times in a row for instance on that part of my route last visit.

Its better than having it flat, but its not going to replicate climbing a hill that s for certain.

Don t get fitness confused with technique.

That was a general comment not aimed at you GD.