CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
Good point
Time for action
- Thread starter magnatom
- Start date
Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.
Jake
New Member
It would have to be done on private land too I would have thought. I know we have problems now and again when we try to film outside, a lot of places are private property, ie we cant film at canary wharf without permission, plus you would have to close a road off. If you can win support from a truck company, then we could use their land.
CopperBrompton
Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
- Location
- London
I think for realism (and thus impact) it needs a real junction with traffic lights, railings, lane-markings, etc.
I don't think it would be too difficult to get permission to do this on a Sunday.
I don't think it would be too difficult to get permission to do this on a Sunday.
Just one thought. Railings are obviously a contributer in these incidents, but I don't think we should focus too much on them, as undercutting an HGV at any junction could quite easily lead to getting caught under the wheels.
I'm just concerned that we could give the false impression that this only happens where there is a barrier.
I'm just concerned that we could give the false impression that this only happens where there is a barrier.
- Location
- Next door to Mr Benn at No 54
scouserinlondon said:
This has now been added to the Summary. Thank you Scouser
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
Having suggested a comedy idea, I do think that hard hitting is probably easier to get right.
+1 for collaboration with HGV drivers. Although I think this is maybe one case where, whether we like it or not, the very best solution is simply to stay the heck out of the way of trucks. I don't mean drivers shouldn't have to look out, but at the end of the day, many many cyclists can chose just not to be in that position.
I know there is stil the case of lorries pulling alongside - really if a driver has overtaken a cyclist and forgotten they are there, no amount of exhortation to look more carefully is going to make them better drivers. Lets concentrate on the message we can do most good with.. Does that make sense?
+1 for collaboration with HGV drivers. Although I think this is maybe one case where, whether we like it or not, the very best solution is simply to stay the heck out of the way of trucks. I don't mean drivers shouldn't have to look out, but at the end of the day, many many cyclists can chose just not to be in that position.
I know there is stil the case of lorries pulling alongside - really if a driver has overtaken a cyclist and forgotten they are there, no amount of exhortation to look more carefully is going to make them better drivers. Lets concentrate on the message we can do most good with.. Does that make sense?
I just posted on the poll associated with this thread that I think handing out cards at the roadside might be highly effective. If this is something that it is decided to go with, I am happy to help co-ordinate it.
I would envisage the tasks being getting volunteers to commit to at least one event (possibly tied with launch of video?), chivvying a few other volunteers (I am involved with my local LCC group so could possibly get some additional help there) so that we can as broad a spread across the country and liasing with the producer of the cards and other publicity material to ensure it is with the volunteers in time.
I would envisage the tasks being getting volunteers to commit to at least one event (possibly tied with launch of video?), chivvying a few other volunteers (I am involved with my local LCC group so could possibly get some additional help there) so that we can as broad a spread across the country and liasing with the producer of the cards and other publicity material to ensure it is with the volunteers in time.
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
I don't like to be a wet blanket, but I'm not sure about handing stuff out roadside for a few reasons.
a) possible byelaws about such activity?
:troll: litter, when people just drop the card in the gutter
c) people being distracted by reading the card as they ride off...
Ok if you can actually have a real conversation about it, assuming someone has the time - and most of us I think, when approached by someone in the street, tend to duck our heads and not stop...
The idea of cards is a good one though, and there might be plenty of outlets for them - shops (not just bike shops, any local shop happy to have a few on the counter. Put up as advertsising in newsagents windows (that has a cost, obviously), or in supermarket customer advert holders.
a) possible byelaws about such activity?
:troll: litter, when people just drop the card in the gutter
c) people being distracted by reading the card as they ride off...
Ok if you can actually have a real conversation about it, assuming someone has the time - and most of us I think, when approached by someone in the street, tend to duck our heads and not stop...
The idea of cards is a good one though, and there might be plenty of outlets for them - shops (not just bike shops, any local shop happy to have a few on the counter. Put up as advertsising in newsagents windows (that has a cost, obviously), or in supermarket customer advert holders.
Arch said:
I know what you mean, Arch, but I think that it does need to be something "in your face" and I think the best way of doing this is out on the streets. The video and leaflets dispensed in various places can be ignored, but someone handing out leaflets with appropriate publicity (posters, etc) on nearby street furniture would be a hard-hitting way of getting the message across, and as I said, it would be good if it could be done in conjunction with the launch of the video (link to it on the cards, etc).
In response to your specific comments:
(a) If it is done on the public highway and you are not causing an obstruction then I don't think there is a problem. I have done this with ICAG (Islington Cyclists Action Group - the LCC group in Islington) and we have had no problems.
(
We would need to ensure that any dropped in the immediate vicinity were picked up but I think if we made sure that we targetted people carefully and there is sufficient other publicity material to alert cyclists around then this is less of an issue.(c) That might be an issue but again in our experience it hasn't tended to be.
Generally I would suggest that we target very specific areas where we are aware that this is an issue or a likelihood that cyclists could cut up the inside of large vehicles, and that the cards are handed out to the cyclists who look like they are about to cycle up the inside of large vehicles. I would suggest that the junctions chosen are light controlled and any card-handing out takes place when the lights are at red and to cyclists close to the kerb (the ones we want to target anywhere).
I have possibly got a very London viewpoint and I could see how it could work in my neck of the words (and, as mentioned, I have been involved in similar actions locally). The idea might not translate nationwide.
Anyway, it is an offer, if the consensus is we want to try this. If not, then I am happy to go with the consensus and help out in any other way I can - I can certainly make sure that any cards are distributed to bike shops, etc in my part of North London.
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
I was listening to Woman's Hour this morning, and they trailed the programme tomorrow which will include a piece on whether cycling is safe for women - I have to assume this is in light of the incident at the Oval and the like. I've emailed them this:
"Dear Woman’s Hour,
I heard today that you will be covering the issue of cycling safety for women tomorrow, and wanted to make an important point. I am a keen cyclist, who commutes by bike, and rides for leisure and fitness. I am also a member of an internet cycling forum, www.cyclechat.co.uk, and we have recently been prompted by the incident at the Oval, Kennington, to discuss methods of getting one very important point across to cyclists.
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=37713
A number of incidents recently have involved cyclists, often women, being crushed by left turning lorries. There is one simple message which must be put across and which might have saved some of these people, and might save some in the future. That message is, and I hope you will forgive me ‘shouting’ it.
NEVER CYCLE DOWN THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF A LONG VEHICLE IN A QUEUE OF TRAFFIC!
It is perfectly legal to filter down the left of traffic, but that does not always make it sensible. If you are riding down the side of a long vehicle you may well be in a mirror blind spot. I have driven 7.5 tonne vehicles, so I know how big the blind spots can be. If that vehicle moves off and turns left, or even moves over to the left, perhaps to avoid a right turning vehicle in front, a cyclist can be knocked under and run over, and you do not often walk away from an incident like that.
I learned this lesson when I was new to cycling and tried to undertake a bus which was turning left, at a corner with pedestrian railings. I was lucky and got away with twisted handlebars. Better to wait in the queue, for the sake of a few seconds off your journey possibly gained by getting to the front of a queue.
The benefits of cycling, in health terms, far outweigh the dangers, but too many people take to two wheels without thinking about how their riding methods affect their safety. If you can highlight one thing on your programme, make it the message about undertaking lorries. If you can highlight two things, please mention that training for adult cyclists is available – ask your local council for details. There is also an excellent book, called ‘Cyclecraft’ which explains how to use and judge the road. Finally, if people want specific advice, there are many forums like Cyclechat, where those of us with experience are only to willing to pass it on.
Sue Archer"
I know it only addresses the cyclist's side, but that is half the battle, and I'm not sure how many lorry drivers listen to Woman's Hour anyway....
"Dear Woman’s Hour,
I heard today that you will be covering the issue of cycling safety for women tomorrow, and wanted to make an important point. I am a keen cyclist, who commutes by bike, and rides for leisure and fitness. I am also a member of an internet cycling forum, www.cyclechat.co.uk, and we have recently been prompted by the incident at the Oval, Kennington, to discuss methods of getting one very important point across to cyclists.
http://www.cyclechat.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=37713
A number of incidents recently have involved cyclists, often women, being crushed by left turning lorries. There is one simple message which must be put across and which might have saved some of these people, and might save some in the future. That message is, and I hope you will forgive me ‘shouting’ it.
NEVER CYCLE DOWN THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF A LONG VEHICLE IN A QUEUE OF TRAFFIC!
It is perfectly legal to filter down the left of traffic, but that does not always make it sensible. If you are riding down the side of a long vehicle you may well be in a mirror blind spot. I have driven 7.5 tonne vehicles, so I know how big the blind spots can be. If that vehicle moves off and turns left, or even moves over to the left, perhaps to avoid a right turning vehicle in front, a cyclist can be knocked under and run over, and you do not often walk away from an incident like that.
I learned this lesson when I was new to cycling and tried to undertake a bus which was turning left, at a corner with pedestrian railings. I was lucky and got away with twisted handlebars. Better to wait in the queue, for the sake of a few seconds off your journey possibly gained by getting to the front of a queue.
The benefits of cycling, in health terms, far outweigh the dangers, but too many people take to two wheels without thinking about how their riding methods affect their safety. If you can highlight one thing on your programme, make it the message about undertaking lorries. If you can highlight two things, please mention that training for adult cyclists is available – ask your local council for details. There is also an excellent book, called ‘Cyclecraft’ which explains how to use and judge the road. Finally, if people want specific advice, there are many forums like Cyclechat, where those of us with experience are only to willing to pass it on.
Sue Archer"
I know it only addresses the cyclist's side, but that is half the battle, and I'm not sure how many lorry drivers listen to Woman's Hour anyway....
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
magnatom said:That's excellent Arch!Let us know if you get a reply or if anything gets aired.
Ididn't know you had an incident yourself. That sounds like it was a scary one!
It was a long time ago - nearly 10 years now, when I was only just in York, and learning about cycling (I could ride before, and did, but hadn't got the bug, so to speak.) Very stupidly, I tried to undertake a bus on a corner, in a slow moving queue. With pedestrian railings.
Luckily, all I had to do, after the bus had moved on, was straighten my handlebars, which caught in the railings and got nudged by the bus as it moved.
It was a classic stupid thing to do, but I simply didn't know better, or think about it properly. I wouldn't have said I was particularly dim, and I had my driving licence, and knew the green cross code. Probably exactly the same level of knowledge and experience as maybe 50% of those people out there who've only just started, or are only cycling because it's fine weather, or because they are having their annual health purge or whatever...
Arch
Married to Night Train
- Location
- Salford, UK
magnatom said:
I'm quite happy to talk/write about it - it's a good example of a generally intelligent (I hope!) person making a silly mistake - and luckily, getting away with it. I was lucky it was a bus, so my handlebar end just ran along the bodywork. If it had been a lorry....
