Thomas accussed of doping amongst others

[BJH]

I would be for this being published. Anything that opens up information is worth having, so I would not call L'Equipe a rag on this basis. They have been one of the few journals willing to go public, so they should be applauded.

Whether or not this data is invalidated, incorrect, or correct will make no difference.

I have said on here many times before, watch reactions of the riders, that will tell us all more about what they are up to than anything else !

 

[Noodley]

I'm not accusing them of doping. Not at all. All I am saying is that there's no reason to be 100% certain about those two compared to many other non-British riders on the list.

I know you are not accusing them but I think you are jumping to the conclusion that just because monty said he did not believe Thomas was doping was purely down to him being British.

 

[raindog]

This has exploded all over the net on bike forums now, and certain people are simply treating it as a list of dopers and none dopers. The UCI had better explain pdq what it's all about and what criteria they used to draw up the list. I'm waiting to see what the riders who are implicated have to say about it. IMO this is going to do more harm than good.

 

[monnet]

I agree Raindog.

There are some really interesting positions on that list. Hunt at 7. A certain American chap down in 4, at the same level as Evans. And quite a few others that seem not to add up. THen again, plenty that do have the head nodding.

 

[Dave_1]

I see the pro riders assoc will sue Le rag...take them to the cleaners..and can you just imagine the lowly scored dopers who will now be increasing their dosage, as well as the clean higher up the list who did nothing wrong

 

[Flying_Monkey]

I know you are not accusing them but I think you are jumping to the conclusion that just because monty said he did not believe Thomas was doping was purely down to him being British.

He's said it wasn't for that reason and that's fine by me. And it's really not the major issue here.

 

[ufkacbln]

There is no need for evidence in such accusations..... you can accuse whoever you like

EVen the "evidence" is unsubstantiated. Take the EPO tests used in Sidney..... and produced the "positive test" for Armstong's B sample

When later tests were performed to authenticate the results a study by experts showed that the test was picking up other naturally produced proteins as well.

One of the factors deemed likely to cause a false positive was.... exercise!

As presented at one appeal case:

Prof. Bogaerts was appointed by the Disciplinary Council of the Flemish Community in Belgium to examine the case of Rutger Beke's false positive. In an interview with Sporza TV on August 2, 2005, Prof. Bogaerts declared, "If people have a pronounced post-exercise proteinuria, one lab interprets the result as a positive test, such as those of Ghent and Cologne, but another laboratory considers the test as negative. I am certain that they have acted honestly, but the EPO test in itself is not reliable."

 

[raindog]

I reckon the International Association of Professional Cycling's response is about right.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/aigcp-responds-to-leaked-list

 

[mangaman]

List of L'Equipe, says it all really !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would say it all if you read it Keith.

It's in Equipe but it's the UCI's list of "suspicious" riders based on their biological passports.

Of course it's a disgrace any British rider should get 5 or 6 out of 10.

Especially if they have been vocally anti doping. I can't think of a British rider who vehemently condemned doping then got caught since.. all the way back to David Millar.

Anyway Keith - if you're that upset - blame the UCI not Equipe.

 

[HLaB]

I don't hold much faith in that list, I'm actually surprised to see Contraversialdor and Vino arent ranked higher; I was glad to see Cancellara at 0 though (I guess a doped bike doesn't count )

 

[Fiona N]

Even more odd than the individual scores was that ranking of teams and nationalities (basically addiing up the individual's scores and dividing by the number of individuals). On this ranking the UK riders come out about the same as Italians and Sky is in the bottom half of the table of teams (Astana and Radioshack at the bottom). Now given that the UK has not had a (professional cycling) drugs culture anything like Italy and Spain (to name but two) with their various shonky doctors and many of the UK riders have come through the British Olympic training squad, I find this a bit odd to say the least.

It makes me wonder how much of the ranking was 'hard fact' against stated quantitative criteria and how much was subjective judgement in which 'well I've never liked Team Sky - can't trust those arrogant Brit guys...' has influenced the rankings.


Here's the rankings from L'Equipe (taken from The science of Sport blog site)
The ranking of the least suspicious teams:
1.Cofidis 4
2. Bbox Buoygues Telecom 14
3. FDJ 15
4. AG2R-La Mondiale 16
5. Garmin-Transitions 17
6. Cervelo 20
Footon-Servetto 20
8. Rabobank 21
9. Liquigas 22
Team Sky 22
11. Milram 23
Saxo Bank 23
13. Euskaltel-Euskadi 24
14. Katusha 26
15. Lampre 28
16. Quick Step 30
17. Omega Pharma-Lotto 31
18. HTC-Columbia 32
BMC 32
Caisse d’Epargne 32
21. Astana 39
22. RadioShack 40

The ranking of the least suspicious nations:
1. France 1.23 (based on the average of 35 riders)
2. Netherlands 1.25 (8)
3. Switzerland 1.60 (5)
4. Portugal 2.0 (3)
5. Slovenia 2.25 (4)
6. USA 2.37 (8)
7. Belgium 2.69 (13)
8. Denmark 2.80 (5)
9. Austria 3.0 (3)
10. Germany 3.27 (15)
Australia 3.27 (11)
12. Spain 3.27 (32)
Great Britain 3.27 (8)
14. Italy 3.70 (17)
15. Belarus 4.0 (3)
16. Russia 4.33 (6)
17. Kazakhstan 5.33 (3)
Ukraine 5.33 (3)

 

[raindog]

Video of Millar on "The Leak"
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/video-millar-shocked-and-incredibly-disappointed-at-leaked-index

 

[mangaman]

Even more odd than the individual scores was that ranking of teams and nationalities (basically addiing up the individual's scores and dividing by the number of individuals). On this ranking the UK riders come out about the same as Italians and Sky is in the bottom half of the table of teams (Astana and Radioshack at the bottom). Now given that the UK has not had a (professional cycling) drugs culture anything like Italy and Spain (to name but two) with their various shonky doctors and many of the UK riders have come through the British Olympic training squad, I find this a bit odd to say the least.

It makes me wonder how much of the ranking was 'hard fact' against stated quantitative criteria and how much was subjective judgement in which 'well I've never liked Team Sky - can't trust those arrogant Brit guys...' has influenced the rankings.


Here's the rankings from L'Equipe (taken from The science of Sport blog site)
The ranking of the least suspicious teams:
1.Cofidis 4
2. Bbox Buoygues Telecom 14
3. FDJ 15
4. AG2R-La Mondiale 16
5. Garmin-Transitions 17
6. Cervelo 20
Footon-Servetto 20
8. Rabobank 21
9. Liquigas 22
Team Sky 22
11. Milram 23
Saxo Bank 23
13. Euskaltel-Euskadi 24
14. Katusha 26
15. Lampre 28
16. Quick Step 30
17. Omega Pharma-Lotto 31
18. HTC-Columbia 32
BMC 32
Caisse d’Epargne 32
21. Astana 39
22. RadioShack 40

The ranking of the least suspicious nations:
1. France 1.23 (based on the average of 35 riders)
2. Netherlands 1.25 (8)
3. Switzerland 1.60 (5)
4. Portugal 2.0 (3)
5. Slovenia 2.25 (4)
6. USA 2.37 (8)
7. Belgium 2.69 (13)
8. Denmark 2.80 (5)
9. Austria 3.0 (3)
10. Germany 3.27 (15)
Australia 3.27 (11)
12. Spain 3.27 (32)
Great Britain 3.27 (8)
14. Italy 3.70 (17)
15. Belarus 4.0 (3)
16. Russia 4.33 (6)
17. Kazakhstan 5.33 (3)
Ukraine 5.33 (3)

Thanks - interesting.

The nationalty one I think is statistically all over the place due to the variation in numbers.

The teams list is more credible as the numbers are similar. I'm just amazed to see RadioShack at the top with Astana a close 2nd

No-one has mentioned Jeremy Hunt - the highest British scorer at 7/10 (then with Cervelo)

Only 14 people were considered more suspicious than him at the TDF last year.

 

[HLaB]

The teams list is more credible as the numbers are similar. I'm just amazed to see RadioShack at the top with Astana a close 2nd

Thats because the Discovery Channel team doesn't exist any more

 

[mangaman]

[rquote name='HLaB' timestamp='1305404097' post='1667624']
Thats because the Discovery Channel team doesn't exist any more
[/quote]

Probably true

Or the USPS team.