This is a helmet debate

[david k]

That's great, maybe you can give the helmet debate a rest then.

more than happy to, but i keep being asked further questions and dont want to appear ignorant so try to answer

 

[ufkacbln]

You want me to run research before wearing a helmet, i dont want to as i am happy with my decision based on my own experience. You seem to spend alot of time trying to prove to me i shouldnt wear one.

I am comfortable with my choice. You seem really confused about yours, you have read up alot and spent time trying to justify not wearing one. If i were you i wouldnt worry so much, dont be scared of being criticized for a decision you make, have the confidence to make your own decision without always having to rely on reports and investigations. You could end up never making a deicision or relying on your instinct if your not careful, if this spread into your professional life you would struggle to complete anything.

Take care mate, and as i say dont worry

So not only admit that you are making ill informed decisions about helmets, but you now have applied these fantastic skills with equal faith to an equally profound knowledge of my personal skills and whether I wear a helmet!

Which is even more worrying!

My professional life (as with most health care professionals) is based on the evidence, not on ignorance. Reports and investigations should be the evidence that any professional should be aware of before acting. Would you be happy for me to treat an illness because "some bloke told me it would work 'cos they said it would", or on clinical evidence that the treatment is safe and effective

That is why the same concept that we should all just "wear a helmet" because someone on a website, (who admits they haven't been bothered to look into the matter) is risible.

I suspected as much when you:

• avoided each question that came close to a fact
• dismissed as off topic any facts that questioned your lack of knowledge
• claim that anything that was not glowing in support is "anti-helmet" or trying to prevent their use
• imagine that any query of their effectiveness is justifying not wearing one
• failed even to understand that they have limitations

The point is, (and I understand why it worries you) is that many of us realise that helmets are not the magic bullet and that people should make an informed choice with a knowledge of the facts - that it the important bit, an informed choice... a concept alien to yourself by you own admission


This type of uninformed pro-helmet evangelism that assumes cyclists who don't support you fully are simply wrong, and that the facts have no place in the decision really does not provide anything positive to the overall discussion, or the case for wearing helmets.

 

[david k]

lol, never disputed your facts, simply defended my right to wear a helmet

 

[Norm]

You do wear a helmet, don't you, Cunobelin.

I wear one to protect me from myself (I'm sure that it helped when I cycled straight into a tree) but I have little to no faith in it being of any benefit if another road user is involved.

 

[Fab Foodie]

lol, never disputed your facts, simply defended my right to wear a helmet

You don't need to defend your right to wear a helmet, nobody is aking you to do that.

However, if you recommend or evangelise helmet wearing (and I'm not saying you necessarily do) or enter a debate, you need to be aware that there may be a requirement for evidence for support your position. In the case for helmet wearing the evidence seems very very weak, yet there is a pro-helmet lobby. There is no anti-helmet agenda, just individuals who have made either rhere own choice based on their particular feelings, or people who have surveyed the evidence which concludes that helmet wearing is not hugely valuable.

 

[ufkacbln]

You do wear a helmet, don't you, Cunobelin.

I wear one to protect me from myself (I'm sure that it helped when I cycled straight into a tree) but I have little to no faith in it being of any benefit if another road user is involved.

Depends.... I think that recumbent trikes make a bigger safety contribution than helmets

Equally what type of head gear I wear will depend on other circumstances - I may wear a helmet or a Tilley depending on weather and the ride.

Joking aside.... I strongly feel that this is and should be an informed choice and that if you decide to wear a helmet then you should do so knowing its limitations and that they are not anywhere near as effective as the claims make out. That is why I always find the ill informed claims and the inability of the evangelists to front a coherent argument amusing.

 

[Crackle]

I wear one to protect me from myself (I'm sure that it helped when I cycled straight into a tree) but I have little to no faith in it being of any benefit if another road user is involved.

Pretty much the same here, except, when I cracked my skull I did it in a place and at a speed I'm not sure anything would help me and there was just me and some builders gravel involved.

The funny thing is, that was in the early 90's and the helmet I bought then was an ANSI and Snell approved one. Hard shell and soft foam inner. I read about the standards at the time. It was too bloody hot though, so a few years later I bought a Bell, also Ansi and Snell approved. Now I have a Met which is EN approved, ANSI has not been updated for years and is defunct and Snell is rare and EN is just so much lower than ANSI, the whole business is depressing.

Funny too how attitudes have changed. When I started riding with a helmet, very few wore them, in fact I saw no one for a couple of years where I lived. As a consequence people use to laugh and sneer at me as I rode. Why was I wearing a helmet on a bicycle FFS. It's a far cry from people's attitude now, how much can change in 20 years.

I still wear one though, most of the time because I remember the pain and I remember the woozy dizzy spells which affected me for 12 months after it. My head hit the ground first at about 25mph on a rdbt. It happened too fast to even react. The bloke in front stopped, not because he saw me go down but because he heard the impact and looked in his mirror. Everyone else drove around me. He helped me up and ushered me to the side of the rdbt. I don't think either of us realized how hard I'd hit. He offered me a lift home, I refused, collected my bike and set off home, walking. I'd only walked a few hundred yards before I realized I was in a bad way. THe next half mile was the longest of my life. When I got in I knew I needed help but was becoming confused about what to do next. By luck the future Mrs Crackle rang and I explained what had happened. She came back rapidly and put me in the car for casualty. It took me an age to get down the stairs to the car and I pleaded for her to go slowly to the hospital as any movement caused me intense pain.

I was in hospital for a few days, incapacitated for a few weeks and affected for a year or more. So now I wear a helmet but despite all that, I too wear one in hope rather than any expectation. Ignorance as to why you should wear one or what they might do, still irritates me.

The biggest lesson from all that is not wear a helmet but don't assume a rdbt/road you've always ridden the same way is safe. Rather assume that there might be something there that was not there before. Ever since then I've been far less gung ho on a bike. I suspect this has kept me far safer than any helmet could.

 

[david k]

Thanks Fab foodie, Youve put your point across well without being very pushy as others are. A forum is all about opinions and debate, so I am happy to discuss these points with you.
I have maintained all along I see value in wearing a helmet, dont have any evidence other than my own opinion formed from my own knowledge and experience. I am happy to share that opinion, but I'm equally happy if people have an alternative view. It isnt me who has been bolshy in getting my view across. It does appear from some posts that people are being advised not to wear a helmet, even if that isnt the intention

 

[Norm]

Depends.... I think that recumbent trikes make a bigger safety contribution than helmets

It would have saved me, as I wouldn't have been able to take it onto that particular riverbank in the first place.

 

[david k]

Joking aside.... I strongly feel that this is and should be an informed choice and that if you decide to wear a helmet then you should do so knowing its limitations ..........

who doesnt know the limitations? Has somebody on here suggested they can do something they cannot? Or have you read something into it that isnt there?

Glad you find helmet wearing amusing, i didnt when i spent several hours in A&E with my son. Maybe you should satisfy your amusement with something else and not a safety issue

 

[RedRider]

This is a helmet debate

Yes, you are.


(The lure of the childish joke was too much to resist, sorry.)

 

[ufkacbln]

who doesnt know the limitations? Has somebody on here suggested they can do something they cannot? Or have you read something into it that isnt there?

Glad you find helmet wearing amusing, i didnt when i spent several hours in A&E with my son. Maybe you should satisfy your amusement with something else and not a safety issue

Oh dear.........

You really need to read what is posted.

 

[david k]

Oh dear.........

You really need to read what is posted.

Yep, read it, I'd ask you to read yours but if your like the rest of us you'll only get bored and skip the waffle

 

[totallyfixed]

Damn, dropped into this topic again to see if any conclusions had been made about pros wearing helmets and as usual it has wandered off topic.....again.

 

[david k]

Damn, dropped into this topic again to see if any conclusions had been made about pros wearing helmets and as usual it has wandered off topic.....again.

must be frustrating for people keeping up with the thread to see long winded arguments being made to justify not wearing a helmet. why people cannot accept others views is beyond me