The Shimano CUES thread..

[bonzobanana]

Shimano's innovations don't always take hold. Cues may not have the success they expect or other firms muscle in and take their market share and then they change their mind and re-formulate their line up. Aliexpress will be a good source of the groupsets and parts that Shimano deny Europe or the US access to. Tourney is huge in poorer countries and where people need basic but solid functionality for a bike used maybe 1000s of miles per year.

Cues is likely something Shimano feel will give them more market control and higher margins but that only happens if it succeeds.

Over 95% of ebikes are hub motor based and many such ebikes go cheap on the drivetrain as the hub motor takes a huge chunk of wear off the drivetrain so many fairly expensive ebikes have basic Tourney drivetrains even with freewheels as they are fit for purpose with a hub motor based ebike. Ebikes are likely to increase in volume and so there is less need for a huge range of gears. 7 is fine when the motor is doing much of the work. Basically I can't see the need for basic drivetrains going away. Even if there is no Claris, Tiagra or Sora there will be Microshift equivalents plus there are many upcoming Chinese and Taiwanese brands happy to fill the void that Shimano creates.

I looked at a youtube video about a bike shop in the Philippines and maybe 80% of the bikes in that shop had LT-Woo groupsets, there was very little Shimano to be seen. It's an extremely price sensitive market so as soon as a reasonable quality alternative becomes available that is cheaper they quickly switch where as Europe and the US are much slower to change as not as price sensitive although we may get that way.

 

[wafter]

Shimano's innovations don't always take hold. Cues may not have the success they expect or other firms muscle in and take their market share and then they change their mind and re-formulate their line up. Aliexpress will be a good source of the groupsets and parts that Shimano deny Europe or the US access to. Tourney is huge in poorer countries and where people need basic but solid functionality for a bike used maybe 1000s of miles per year.

Cues is likely something Shimano feel will give them more market control and higher margins but that only happens if it succeeds.

Over 95% of ebikes are hub motor based and many such ebikes go cheap on the drivetrain as the hub motor takes a huge chunk of wear off the drivetrain so many fairly expensive ebikes have basic Tourney drivetrains even with freewheels as they are fit for purpose with a hub motor based ebike. Ebikes are likely to increase in volume and so there is less need for a huge range of gears. 7 is fine when the motor is doing much of the work. Basically I can't see the need for basic drivetrains going away. Even if there is no Claris, Tiagra or Sora there will be Microshift equivalents plus there are many upcoming Chinese and Taiwanese brands happy to fill the void that Shimano creates.

I looked at a youtube video about a bike shop in the Philippines and maybe 80% of the bikes in that shop had LT-Woo groupsets, there was very little Shimano to be seen. It's an extremely price sensitive market so as soon as a reasonable quality alternative becomes available that is cheaper they quickly switch where as Europe and the US are much slower to change as not as price sensitive although we may get that way.

Some very interesting points!

I assume that Tourney will be on the chopping block too; since it's 8sp and IIRC CUES will offer a minimum of 9sp.. the new stuff could potentially represent more of an issue in the less affluent markets as it will likely be effectively replacing Shimano's entire range; whereas over here there will still be some (probably eye-wateringly expensive) alternatives at the higher end.. although they'll all be 12sp so of little relevance to everyone with "legacy" 8-11sp gear.

It certainly seems that like many other more established (if usually western) brands in other areas, it seems the low-end Chinese stuff presents and increasing threat.. Microshift especially seem to have been making quiet inroads into European markets for quite some time now.. while I suspect their STI equivalents are probably noticeably inferior to Shimano alternatives, I have some of the bar-end shifters on my Fuji and they're pretty decent.

I guess CUES is an attempt to compete with these lower-end offerings since it's all pretty established tech that Shimano probably can't really compete against so well with their usual ongoing development of more gears. Tbh "development" at the top end seems increasingly absurd and counter productive to me...

I agree about the cost too - for the forseeable it certainly looks like everyone in the west (especially our cursed little island) is going to get poorer..

 

[T4tomo]

.. while I suspect their STI equivalents are probably noticeably inferior to Shimano alternatives

its pretty decent actually, reassuring clunk when you change like Campag, but reliable. my sons old decathlon bike had 3x8 and I put R10 on the OH's gravel bike, which works a treat and has FD trim function etc. for a fraction of the price of what 4600 /4700 would have been

 

[wafter]

its pretty decent actually, reassuring clunk when you change like Campag, but reliable. my sons old decathlon bike had 3x8 and I put R10 on the OH's gravel bike, which works a treat and has FD trim function etc. for a fraction of the price of what 4600 /4700 would have been

Ta - I wonder if Shimano are just resigned to the fact that the parts for their historic gear is going to increasingly be diluted with cheaper Chinese stuff.. I guess it's quite an unusual position to occupy; with budget stuff still coming out of Japan; although I expect that a lot of Shimano stuff is offshored to Taiwan / China anyway..

 

[bonzobanana]

Ta - I wonder if Shimano are just resigned to the fact that the parts for their historic gear is going to increasingly be diluted with cheaper Chinese stuff.. I guess it's quite an unusual position to occupy; with budget stuff still coming out of Japan; although I expect that a lot of Shimano stuff is offshored to Taiwan / China anyway..

A lot of the low end Shimano stuff is made in China by third party factories. Shimano just enjoy the license fees/royalties pretty much. Shimano still pretty much do all their own manufacturing for mid-range and upwards products its not like SRAM who have pretty much all their stuff made by other factories with a few exceptions. I could have remembered wrongly but LT-Woo I think is a factory that used to make SRAM drivetrain components but lost the contract and then started making their own branded products.

 

[SpokeyDokey]

I don't think the 11 speed CUES road offering when it arrives is likely to be any less good than the last mechanical 105 offering. Not in the U8000 version, anyhow. The U6000 version might be.

And I'm not sure it really means an end to gradual progression either, though we'll have to see which versions become available as road groupsets. But with the current lineup, there are three full ranges in CUES which will hopefully all come to road, and then you will have the three higher (electronic) ranges. So you still have 6 ranges.

Yes, it will start at 9 speed rather then the current 7 speed tourney and 8 speed Sora, but number of speeds at the lower end have been rising regularly for quite a few years.

The biggest issue I see is that anybody who currently has Hyperglide components will need to replace the entire groupset if they want to change, because the CUES components are only compatible with Linkglide.

The other big thing, not mentioned in that article, is that CUES is (at present) disc brake only. If that continues into the road range, then Shimano will have effectively killed off rim brakes, since Di2 105 was already disc brake only.

No surprise to see these new products being disc only. An inevitable trend. A quick head count including me (discs) & friends gives only 2 out of 14 riders with road bikes running rims - one being a high-end Domane a few years old that he wishes was disc-braked but can't afford to change and the other a 'this will see me out' Kuota that will never be changed.

 

[fossyant]

Fortunately I use superior friction shifting. No compatibility issues.

Nah, SIS for the win, downtube shifters as well.

 

[Jameshow]

Don't forget shensa top which seems to get good reviews? Anyone tried it??

 

[cyberknight]

its pretty decent actually, reassuring clunk when you change like Campag, but reliable. my sons old decathlon bike had 3x8 and I put R10 on the OH's gravel bike, which works a treat and has FD trim function etc. for a fraction of the price of what 4600 /4700 would have been

I have used microshift in the past and it works,like you say it's a. Positive clunk ,the only downside is external cables for the shifters if that bothers the aero crowd. I'm watching the sebsah shifters with interest as a potential replacement