The rugby

[Dogtrousers]

With Marcus Smith at fullback they have an attacking threat but a vulnerability under the high ball.

Admittedly I only watched the second half and I wasn't exactly keeping count of errors but I did note Smith handling a few high balls pretty well.

 

[Beebo]

Ok, so should we England fans be feeling nervous? England are making progress but still seem capable of defensive brain farts. Wales are definitely on the up and are experts at spoiling England's party in London (Wembley Grand Slam spoiler 1999, Twickenham RWC spoiler 2015 plus the "6 minutes of madness" 6N match at Twickenham in 2008)

If I was betting I'd still back England, because this Wales team when they are bad are worse than this England team when they are bad, but I wouldn't be staking a whole lot on it.

Prediction: England to win a terrible but tense match.

We all know Wales will be more motivated for this game than any other.
England will be ready to weather an early storm and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get rolled over.
Our position in the table is flattering. I don’t think any English fans think they have been the 2nd best team. But it shows how close the games are.

 

[Dogtrousers]

We all know Wales will be more motivated for this game than any other.
England will be ready to weather an early storm and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get rolled over.
Our position in the table is flattering. I don’t think any English fans think they have been the 2nd best team. But it shows how close the games are.

Generally agree with the sentiments except for the position in the table bit. I don't particularly like bonus points, or points difference. It all comes down to matches won, and at present there are three teams on P4 W3. So in my book there are three teams equal top of the table.

I'm old enough to nostalgically remember the days of shared championships. What next? A 6n "Grand Final?"

Saying "the scoreline flattered X" or - in this case "position in the table flatters ..." is all a bit too "coulda woulda shoulda" for me. But I do see what you mean about England not being the second best team. I just don't think that's what the table is (or should be IMO) for. It's to show who is leading or has won the championship. Which is a different thing.

 

[matticus]

Saying "the scoreline flattered X" or - in this case "position in the table flatters ..." is all a bit too "coulda woulda shoulda" for me. But I do see what you mean about England not being the second best team. I just don't think that's what the table is (or should be IMO) for. It's to show who is leading or has won the championship. Which is a different thing.

Yes:
Unless a team has had some outrageous luck, or engaged in some truly blatant skull-dugggery outside the "spirit of rugby", I don't see how you can say that points-on-the-table are NOT a good reflection of the teams' ranking.

It's no good pretending that "flair" matters, in a world where South Africa are congratulated for shoving other teams* off the park. It's the final scores that matter; everything else is sour grapes.

*(unless they're a much-loved "proper rugby" side, of course!)

 

[Beebo]

Anyone moaning about mindless kicking in today’s rugby needs to read this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64584534
1963 - Wales 6 Scotland 0.
With 111 line outs and 35 scrums in the games.
It was so bad it saw the law change to penalise kicking directly to touch outside the 22m.

 

[Rusty Nails]

We all know Wales will be more motivated for this game than any other.
England will be ready to weather an early storm and I wouldn’t be surprised if we get rolled over.
Our position in the table is flattering. I don’t think any English fans think they have been the 2nd best team. But it shows how close the games are.

England's position is flattering, but Wales' position reflects exactly their ability at the moment. We can put together good segments in a match but lack the strength and experience to make it count for 80 mins. Based on current position England will win, based on potential and strength England will win.
For Wales to win they will have to give their best performance of the tournament and England will have to give their worst. Not impossible, but highly unlikely.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Anyone moaning about mindless kicking in today’s rugby needs to read this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64584534
1963 - Wales 6 Scotland 0.
With 111 line outs and 35 scrums in the games.
It was so bad it saw the law change to penalise kicking directly to touch outside the 22m.

I still have nightmares over Clive Rowlands' kicking game. It was soul-destroyingly dreadful.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Anyone moaning about mindless kicking in today’s rugby needs to read this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64584534
1963 - Wales 6 Scotland 0.
With 111 line outs and 35 scrums in the games.
It was so bad it saw the law change to penalise kicking directly to touch outside the 22m.

When I was at school I was an extremely wimpy and ineffectual second row/no. 8. We used to have this training drill involving 2 sets of forwards and a scrum half. Starting with a lineout on half way, the SH of the side who won the ball would immediately hoof it out a bit down field, and we'd have another lineout ... and another ... and another ... The aim was to get play down to the opposing pack's line. ISTR that the SH also threw in.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Anyone moaning about mindless kicking in today’s rugby needs to read this.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/64584534
1963 - Wales 6 Scotland 0.
With 111 line outs and 35 scrums in the games.
It was so bad it saw the law change to penalise kicking directly to touch outside the 22m.

This got me doing a bit of digging, and the previous year, 1962 had what look like some classic matches.

England 0 - Wales 0
The last 0-0 in the championship, and also ...

Scotland 3 - England 3
Wales 3 - France 0
Ireland 3 - Wales 3

That was in the days of the 3 point try, though.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1962_Five_Nations_Championship

Edit. This is fascinating. Wales did not score a try in the 1962 5N. Also, there was a smallpox outbreak in Rhodesia
https://www.wru.wales/2020/11/the-1958-hangover-match-in-dublin/

Stand by for more fascinating 1962 facts

Here's Ireland France. Some pretty great running rugby, especially from France

Spoiler: Result

France 11 - Ireland 0

View: https://youtu.be/FZsfA0UMHo8?si=CGY7QFUonC5RJVVn

And there's more. Here's an article on Wales - England 1963. The big freeze, England's last win in Cardiff for 28 years https://thesportsdragon.com/2023/12/23/wales-v-england-1963-and-the-big-freeze/

 

[matticus]

This is fascinating. Wales did not score a try in the 1962 5N

Another classic Welsh side 👍

 

[geocycle]

I was very impressed with France in their last two games. The level of intensity was up with SA at their best and reminiscent of the great Irish wins against the all blacks. If they do that against Scotland they will blow them (or anyone else) away, but another lapse as against England would see them losing. I fancy Wales to hijack England in Cardiff as they have nothing to lose, confidence from the new coach and a point to prove. England are fragile under pressure and when their game plan stops working. They were better in the autumn even though they lost. Ireland should beat Italy although they have become a decent team this championship.

 

[Pross]

As a forum newbie glad to find this before starting one. Superb defensive performance again by Wales U20s tonight against the old enemy. It didn’t look good when they conceded a try after a minute but after that they defended for their lives and gradually got better whilst England got worse and completely lost all discipline. Hopefully the result will be the same tomorrow but I won’t hold my breath!

 

[Beebo]

As a forum newbie glad to find this before starting one. Superb defensive performance again by Wales U20s tonight against the old enemy. It didn’t look good when they conceded a try after a minute but after that they defended for their lives and gradually got better whilst England got worse and completely lost all discipline. Hopefully the result will be the same tomorrow but I won’t hold my breath!

I didn’t watch it, but it just shows how hard a grand slam is.
The consensus seems to be the ref was terrible.
I don’t like to see a loss of discipline. Very poor.

 

[Pross]

Yeah he was poor. In the first 10 minutes it looked like he wanted to make his mark by penalising Wales into submission. He gave a warning after about 5 minutes and a yellow after 10 but after that seemed to become more even in his bad decisions. Despite having some huge units on the field England got outmuscled at the breakdown and the Welsh lads tackling was immense.

 

[Pblakeney]

Not going to plan for Ireland. Not by a chalk.