The Road Maniac and Pathetic Punishment Thread

[icowden]

No reports yet say the phone was playing podcasts or other audio-only material. I expect the watch history was available to evidence like the app usage history clearly was. Surely the defence would have mentioned if it wasn't playing video. Let's not clutch at straws.

But they also don't say that he was watching it or distracted by it. They showed that a youtube video was playing, but you can listen to a video like a podcast and as I pointed out, sometimes the "video" is a static screen, so you are effectively listening to audio. I would imagine that they checked the phone telemetry and couldn't prove that he was using the phone at the time, only that it was playing.

This is a youtube video:-

View: https://youtu.be/uwe01bsMuFc?si=9BLHkps_Br68nz2I


This is a youtube video of a podcast which you don't need to look at:

View: https://youtu.be/vMzgmYpDmi8?si=5K4nAzwFD9UDzN6C

 

[Dogtrousers]

Indeed, in the Bassam case it's possible that he wasn't looking at his phone when it just happened to be playing the Youtube app and he just happened to unaccountably move into the opposing lane and kill someone. Not necessarily likely but as there are grounds for doubt we have to live with the fact that it didn't meet the required standard of evidence for conviction.

That ship has sailed. It is what it is ( )

I did wonder whether the presence of the phone running an app other than a legally positioned satnav might be in some way contrary to the recent beefing up of the RTA under Grant Schapps, but evidently not. Perhaps it needs more beefing up as it seems to have failed in its intent in this case.

And to pre-empt the inevitable "oh, but we all do it sometimes" - no we don't "all do it sometimes". If I'm driving on my own put my phone on silent, do not disturb (no vibrate) or switch it off completely and put it out of the way in the passenger side glovebox. Always. Not just sometimes, always. If someone else is in the car they are in charge of my phone and it's still normally on do not disturb.

 

[icowden]

And to pre-empt the inevitable "oh, but we all do it sometimes" - no we don't "all do it sometimes". If I'm driving on my own put my phone on silent, do not disturb (no vibrate) or switch it off completely and put it out of the way in the passenger side glovebox. Always. Not just sometimes, always. If someone else is in the car they are in charge of my phone and it's still normally on do not disturb.

Those of us living in the 21st Century often hook it up to Android Auto or Apple Car Play. No need for do not disturb or silent. Thus we can listen to whatever we want to listen to (in my case News Quiz, Breaking the News or other comedy podcasts - for my kids Amazon Music usually). I can also let my wife or whoever know what time I'm going to be home by using the microphone and asking google to send a whatsapp. Similarly she can let me know if she needs me to pick up dinner.

 

[mjr]

Those of us living in the 21st Century often hook it up to Android Auto or Apple Car Play. No need for do not disturb or silent. Thus we can listen to whatever we want to listen to (in my case News Quiz, Breaking the News or other comedy podcasts - for my kids Amazon Music usually). I can also let my wife or whoever know what time I'm going to be home by using the microphone and asking google to send a whatsapp. Similarly she can let me know if she needs me to pick up dinner.

And do you feel that distracted driving is a necessary part of living in the 21st Century, or just widespread?

Although you do say "we can..." at one point, which is a different situation. If someone else is in the passenger seat and can operate the mobile device, that's fine, especially if your steering wheel is like mine and has a button to pause the music or mute the radio for a bit during a particularly fiddly bit of driving. A lot of people won't like it though, just like they don't like people cycling or walking along and listening to anything.

But then you continue to say that you dictate whatsapp messages which I think is at least as bad as operating a hands-free phone. It may be legal for now, but research says it's pretty terrible for concentration.

 

[icowden]

And do you feel that distracted driving is a necessary part of living in the 21st Century, or just widespread?

Do you just hate listening to music or podcasts?

Although you do say "we can..." at one point, which is a different situation. If someone else is in the passenger seat and can operate the mobile device, that's fine, especially if your steering wheel is like mine and has a button to pause the music or mute the radio for a bit during a particularly fiddly bit of driving. A lot of people won't like it though, just like they don't like people cycling or walking along and listening to anything.

I can pause the music, switch track or station, or just trigger voice and ask google to do something for me. In return, the car controls my speed, checks constantly for potential obstacles, automatically slows and flashes red lights everywhere if it thinks a collision might happen, steers the car so it stays in lane - and if it detects a medical emergency and the driver doesn't appear to respond, it will slow down and stop at the side of the road with the hazards on.

But then you continue to say that you dictate whatsapp messages which I think is at least as bad as operating a hands-free phone. It may be legal for now, but research says it's pretty terrible for concentration.

Do you not talk to your passengers? If I get a message, google reads it and asks "do you want to reply". I say "yes". It asks what my message is "I'll be home at about 8.30". "Do you want to send?" "Yes".

 

[mjr]

Do you just hate listening to music or podcasts?

I'm fine with it, but that is only a fraction of what Android Auto can do. Also, that doesn't need a video to play. The weakness in your examples earlier is that you can play youtube audio without the video showing and there's no suggestion in reports that the killer did.

Do you not talk to your passengers? If I get a message, google reads it and asks "do you want to reply". I say "yes". It asks what my message is "I'll be home at about 8.30". "Do you want to send?" "Yes".

I talk to passengers, but sometimes ask them to wait a mo while I deal with some driving. People in the car also manage themselves much better than a phone because they can see if you're in a busy/difficult place. I've also been using voice recognition a lot recently because of an illness and I know it's often nowhere near as slick as you make it sound. And even when it is, it's still no better than operating a hands-free phone: it's very distracting.

 

[icowden]

I'm fine with it, but that is only a fraction of what Android Auto can do. Also, that doesn't need a video to play. The weakness in your examples earlier is that you can play youtube audio without the video showing and there's no suggestion in reports that the killer did.

But also no suggestion that he was looking at the video output.

I've also been using voice recognition a lot recently because of an illness and I know it's often nowhere near as slick as you make it sound.

It's a fair cop guv. Sometimes it works well though.

And even when it is, it's still no better than operating a hands-free phone: it's very distracting.

Personally I prefer it to hands free phones as it's quite short.

 

[Dogtrousers]

My Tomtom satnav has voice recognition. I never re-route once I've started a journey so it's pretty useless to me. But I did try it out and it was hilariously useless.

What's more, it would occasionally mis-hear its keyword "Hey tomtom" or some such and we could be driving merrily along and out of the blue it would say, rather ominously, "I'm listening!". It was a bit disconcerting.

It's now firmly switched off.

 

[icowden]

My Tomtom satnav has voice recognition. I never re-route once I've started a journey so it's pretty useless to me. But I did try it out and it was hilariously useless.

It's effectively obsolete now. Google maps has so much information in real time that there isn't anything to beat it. It's one of my annoyances about my ID4 - they spent a load of money doing their own map software and it's pretty useless compared to google maps.

 

[Gunk]

It's effectively obsolete now. Google maps has so much information in real time that there isn't anything to beat it. It's one of my annoyances about my ID4 - they spent a load of money doing their own map software and it's pretty useless compared to google maps.

My Cupra Born sat nav IMO is better than Google Maps, the directions come up on the head up display so no need to take eyes off the the road.

 

[icowden]

My Cupra Born sat nav IMO is better than Google Maps, the directions come up on the head up display so no need to take eyes off the the road.

I can get the ID4 to display the Google Maps directions on the HUD. It's much better at traffic and dynamically updating the route. No-one has more traffic data than google.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I'm quite happy with my fairly old TomTom. Does its job perfectly well. As long as you ignore the voice recognition bit

Oh, and the hands free, which I accidentally activated once. That's switched off too now.

When it dies, which it inevitably will in a few years, I'll have a look around.

 

[Drago]

I've got Morgan Freeman in my van. It's quite reassuring having God/the President giving me directions.

 

[grldtnr]

Do you just hate listening to music or podcasts?


I can pause the music, switch track or station, or just trigger voice and ask google to do something for me. In return, the car controls my speed, checks constantly for potential obstacles, automatically slows and flashes red lights everywhere if it thinks a collision might happen, steers the car so it stays in lane - and if it detects a medical emergency and the driver doesn't appear to respond, it will slow down and stop at the side of the road with the hazards on.


Do you not talk to your passengers? If I get a message, google reads it and asks "do you want to reply". I say "yes". It asks what my message is "I'll be home at about 8.30". "Do you want to send?" "Yes".

So , you appear to have an 'Intelligent Car ' ,that may or may not be self driving.
Such vehicles ,to my mind with AI intelligence are not safe.

Whilst riding my motorbike, I had to make a manoeuvre for my own safety, following was a Tesla, one of those semi autonomic self driving cars,, which at the same time I was about to change lane, 'it' decided to overtake me, I had to cancel my manoeuvre, to avoid a collision.
Now I do not consider autonomous self driving cars safe ,if most other cars are not similarly equipped, whilst it may provide a 'safe' environment for the 'driver' , it doesn't necessarily for other road users.
My point is if you're driving then , one should be in full control of the vehicle, not delegate certain aspects to a computer, at the same time,all these modern driving aids being fitted to modern cars, can be usefull, but only in situation where it will bring the car safely to a stop, without impeding collisions.

Of course I fully expect you to argue against my aversion to autonomous cars, they would be suitable if everyone has one, not just a few.
In computing , if you put crap in, you will get crap out , Simple.

If you travelling ,driving a vehicle, having all these safety systems does not mean you can abdicate driving duties to a bunch of silicon chips.....

 

[Dogtrousers]

Whatever your view on it, automation in vehicles is going to be a very important thing in the area of safety. It's possible that automated features could improve safety, but then people will deny responsibility and blame the car when things go wrong.

Maybe "safety" features could be useful . eg a suitably equipped vehicle could have alerted Bassam that he was leaving his lane while he was momentarily distracted doing something that may or may not have been gawping at YouTube on his phone. A good, safe outcome perhaps?

But it could be a double edged sword. A lane departure warning on the face of it could be seen as useful for refocusing a drivers attention if their concentration falters. But you know what people are like. They will just lower their own standards to compensate. Why bother looking where you are going if the car can do it for you? Out with the phone, fire up YouTube...

Fun times ahead