The Road Maniac and Pathetic Punishment Thread

[icowden]

B.S. Electric cars displace pollution, they do not reduce it. Also that huge battery that has to be replaced every 5 years is a giant block of toxic waste. Yes some of it will be recycled, but it won't be "green" by any means.

Can we stick to some facts? EV batteries don't have to be replaced every 5 years or even every 10 years. The current generation are expected to last between 10 and 20 years or between 100,000 and 200,000 miles. This is just going to improve. Many components can be repurposed or recycled.

They only displace pollution if the Government fails to decrease gas, coal and wood pellet burning. If you have renewables and nuclear, you are vastly reducing pollution by not burning stuff.

One of the biggest problems with cars is the roads they require. Too big. And once all of the trees are cut down for highways and parking it is very probable that the atmosphere won't exist for much longer

Lucky we already have roads then. We don't need more of them (although it would be nice if they didn't all look like the surface of the moon). Potentially if EVs and driverless expand, we will need fewer cars and fewer parking spaces.

As far as public transit goes. How about making car operators pay their fair share instead of heavily subsidizing them ? Why make transit cheaper?

I think I already made that point.

 

[Dogtrousers]

Ideally the alternative to private vehicle use should not just be "public transport". A service based alternative where you don't have to lock up capital in a vehicle that spends 90% of its time doing F-all apart from depreciating (and often taking up valuable road space). Uber is a move in that direction. Car pools/clubs like Zipcar are a move in that direction. I don't know what a solution might ultimately look like.

Making vehicles more expensive, less affordable, would be a good way of creating market conditions favourable to the emergence of such a solution.

EVs are reliant on the mining of lanthanides like neodymium and dysprosium and their chums who live in the skinny bit of the periodic table, among other exotic materials. Any attempt to produce EVs on the same scale of IC vehicles will soon hit supply problems driving prices up (and incidentally causing environmental damage and pollution from their extraction and refinement).

EVs are mainly just a blind to kid people that they somehow need not to worry and can keep doing exactly what they are doing now, and even kid themselves that they are part of the solution.

 

[grldtnr]

You must live in posher lands, with plenty of Range Rovers around your way.

Actually ,I don't, but people with more money than sense ,inhabit my little corner of South Essex, yes there are some affluent areas, with residents commute to that London place with well paid jobs, who consequently have to project the image .
What we are talking about here ,is Attitude, 'Look I 've got money, so I buy nice things' that self same attitude also transmogrify to the way they drive, as it does with a lot of people whom are able to drive expensive cars, even if the only way to do so is on PCP deals, ordinarily they couldn't afford.
I take a different view ' I don't want what I haven't got.' I own everything I have , I am debt free.
But there are a lot of big 4x4 motors about here, as well as a sprinkling of expensive sports cars, Jags, Aston's & the like.
But what I have noticed is whilst the Chavs drive about like right Chads, the ones who can afford proper expensive cars , do drive responsibly, the ones who have high end Italian exotica.
Comes back to Attitude again.

 

[grldtnr]

Unfortunately the employers get around it by making riders self employed (the arrangement was backed the Supreme Court). Riders are solely resposible for providing their own vehicle, insurance, sat nav/phone. It is a handy little set up that absolves the delivery company of any responsibility as in the case being discussed here.

Of course, riders should be fully responsible for ensuring they and their bike are legally compliant, but if they are not and cause an accident/death/injury, I would personally like to see them and the company employing them punished.

It's obvious to me that licensing and insurance details are not being met ,as self employed delivery riders, you only have to look at the dangerous wrecks these riders are using, to see that is so,
Then you have the CBT Moto riders,i'll wager lip service is being paid to those rules and regulations, they will only be upbraided by the law should they stop them and inspect, documents.

It's being blatantly ignored, and dangerous riders as well as bikes are out there,minimal attention to the rules, to maximise earnings, which by all accounts is a pittance

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

It's obvious to me that licensing and insurance details are not being met ,as self employed delivery riders, you only have to look at the dangerous wrecks these riders are using, to see that is so,
Then you have the CBT Moto riders,i'll wager lip service is being paid to those rules and regulations, they will only be upbraided by the law should they stop them and inspect, documents.

It's being blatantly ignored, and dangerous riders as well as bikes are out there,minimal attention to the rules, to maximise earnings, which by all accounts is a pittance

Oh yes, it is quite clearly being ignored. I doubt even the tiniest percentage of 'cyclist' delivery drivers are now legally compliant. I personally think these contraptions are death traps and the riders themselves pay very little attention to safe cycling or the Highway Code. As you said though, they are paid a pittance and will break the law in a desperate attempt to try and maximise earnings. I am not trying to absolve individual's of responsibility, but holding delivery companies to account, forcing them to pay better and ensure riders are compliant would help massively. Sadly, that's never going to happen.

 

[brommieinkorea]

Replace every 5 years?

The average lifespan a traction battery is longer than the average life of an entire ICE vehicle.

Nissan a while back freely published that the battery in a Leaf car would only have 50% capacity at the 5 year point. Obviously, they are getting better, but there aren't too many 10 or 20 year old electric cars.

 

[Drago]

Ah, the leaf Is a very important exception to the rule due to having no on board charging management, no battery conditioning ability, and no active cooling or thermal management.

As a consequence battery capacity on thenLeaf mk1 degraded heavily.

But manufacturers learned fast and every electric car (not quadricycle) since has had all of those and benefit enormously for it.

The mk1 Leaf is the equivalent of citing a Standard 8 as an example of how petrol cars are.

In the UK, depending on whose stats you choose, although they all broadly reflect the same trend, the average petrol cars has a lifespan of 10.5 years, diesel cars of 16.8, eleftric cars 18.4.

They don't need batteries replacing every full moon. Indeed, they need replacement batteries a fraction as often as ICE cars need new engines. Get over it.

 

[icowden]

Nissan a while back freely published that the battery in a Leaf car would only have 50% capacity at the 5 year point. Obviously, they are getting better, but there aren't too many 10 or 20 year old electric cars.

But there are use cases that show the batteries last a lot longer than you think.

First of all Wizzy - the leaf taxi that clocked up 100,000 miles between 2013 and 2015 with almost full battery health and still on its first set of brake pads. Rapid charged 1700 times.
https://www.zap-map.com/news/electr...despite living the same,pence per mile to run.

A few years later there was another update at 170,000 miles:

Wizzy has now done more than 170,000 miles and is still used daily. Soon to be pensioned off and replaced by a 30kwh. Thought we would post a picture to show the resilience of the LEAFs battery. Even now in the winter we can get about 65 miles. It has a lifetime average of 3.9 miles per kw.
Has much gone wrong on the car over 170k miles?

A couple of track rod ends, each lower arm, 2 link rods, 1 front shock and the car has never failed us in all it's miles. Drivers seat has seen better days. Car is still on it's second replacement pads front and back. Never ever replaced the discs.

Wizzy' has been rapid charged 3786 times & L2 charged 8925 times. We think it has lost about 26% of the battery.

We have seven 30kWh LEAFS. One has done 62,000 miles already. We seem to get inaccurate readings with leafspy. Can you adjust leafspy to read 30kWh LEAF?

Wizzy has now retired from taxi life. We might still use it as a runabout so it will amass a few more miles. It has far exceeded our expectations and has never broken down (maybe ran out of power a couple of times) still has it's original 12V battery and other than a couple of track rod ends, each lower arm, each link rod, one front shock failure (about 120,000m, we replaced both for safety), pollen filter, 3 set of wiper blades, two sets of brake pads front and rear and tyres. The car is still running on its original motor, battery pack and reduction gear. We hope this instills confidence in all owners of LEAF and maybe help people considering the leap into the EV world. You will wonder why you ever drove diesel/petrol polluting our world. Thank you all for following Wizzys adventure. Who knows how long Wizzy will go on....

And that is a 2013 Nissan Leaf. Think of the battery improvement that has been made in 12 years since then...

 

[Alex321]

B.S. Electric cars displace pollution, they do not reduce it. Also that huge battery that has to be replaced every 5 years is a giant block of toxic waste.

Neither of those is remotely correct.

In any situation where a significant part of the electricity they use is generated by renewables, they reduce pollution. In the UK, fossil fuels now account for less than 35% of electricity generation.

And the batteries generally last 15 years+. and can then be recycled for other uses, not becoming "toxic waste".

Yes some of it will be recycled, but it won't be "green" by any means.

Agree they still aren't really "green", but they are a LOT closer to it than fossil fuel cars.

One of the biggest problems with cars is the roads they require. Too big. And once all of the trees are cut down for highways and parking it is very probable that the atmosphere won't exist for much longer. This problem is global, but people living on tiny island countries may notice the lack of space for anything but cars earlier.
As far as public transit goes. How about making car operators pay their fair share instead of heavily subsidizing them ? Why make transit cheaper?

Exactly what "subsidies" do you think they get?

VED and fuel excise duties bring in far more than the cost of maintaining roads - VED last year £7.4 Billion, Road fuel duty £24 billion, total spend on roads £12.7 billion.

 

[grldtnr]

But there are use cases that show the batteries last a lot longer than you think.

First of all Wizzy - the leaf taxi that clocked up 100,000 miles between 2013 and 2015 with almost full battery health and still on its first set of brake pads. Rapid charged 1700 times.
https://www.zap-map.com/news/electric-taxi-company-clocks-100000-miles-in-nissan-leaf#:~:text=But, despite living the same,pence per mile to run.

A few years later there was another update at 170,000 miles:

And that is a 2013 Nissan Leaf. Think of the battery improvement that has been made in 12 years since then...

Er, what ever happened to the crime & punishment thread.
The above postings belong elsewhere
For those who practise the catechism ,10 hail Mary's, a bottle of whiskey ,to the priest, and a walk up Croagh Patrick on bare knees! Suspended for a week , on good behaviour.
I am heathen so don't bovver me.

 

[boydj]

Neither of those is remotely correct.

In any situation where a significant part of the electricity they use is generated by renewables, they reduce pollution. In the UK, fossil fuels now account for less than 35% of electricity generation.

And the batteries generally last 15 years+. and can then be recycled for other uses, not becoming "toxic waste".




Agree they still aren't really "green", but they are a LOT closer to it than fossil fuel cars.



Exactly what "subsidies" do you think they get?

VED and fuel excise duties bring in far more than the cost of maintaining roads - VED last year £7.4 Billion, Road fuel duty £24 billion, total spend on roads £12.7 billion.

Money spent on roads is only a fraction of the costs related to motors on the roads. Pollution, ill health caused by pollution, costs of accidents and injuries caused thereby, congestion and delays, ill health due to sedentary lifestyles etc. Driving is heavily subsidised.

 

[Alex321]

Money spent on roads is only a fraction of the costs related to motors on the roads. Pollution, ill health caused by pollution, costs of accidents and injuries caused thereby, congestion and delays, ill health due to sedentary lifestyles etc. Driving is heavily subsidised.

Evidence for that?

 

[grldtnr]

Drago, time to whip the 'modifier' out of you truncheon pocket, we are of topic again.
This is a Road Maniac & mundane Punishment thread, not an environmental one.
'Ecky thoomp' time, Constable, do your duty !

 

[Drago]

Drago, time to whip the 'modifier' out of you truncheon pocket, we are of topic again.
This is a Road Maniac & mundane Punishment thread, not an environmental one.
'Ecky thoomp' time, Constable, do your duty !

I deserve serious flagellation for my transgression,

 

[matticus]

Its well and good that then offender stopped and tried to administer first aid, but that's a bit of w a eak mitigation.

The time to suddenly become a good and caring citizen is before your multiple lawbreaking and reckless behaviour kills someone.

To only do the right thing after youre killed someone and realised youre in a spot of sheet could quite conceivably be regarded as a cycnical attempt at punitive damage limiting.

Mitigation is only relevant once someone has been found guilty! It's irrelevant to other situations.

If the courts always handed out sentences by your logic, everyone would get the max sentence for their offence. How do YOU think mitigation should be applied?