The Road Maniac and Pathetic Punishment Thread

[grldtnr]

Those as well but they are not common and breeding, whereas oversize, overweight, over fast accelerating SUV style EVs are.

Depends on your definition of common , plenty of large 4x4 SUVs around here in affluent areas, driven as status symbols, by chavvy common people,
The really posh ones happen to be Bentley and Rolls Royce, , not that common ,granted.
But the point is this pervading problem of Maniac drivers & pathetic punishments

 

[icowden]

'A little less polluting over the long term than ICE cars, but still murderous to the planet overall' would be more accurate, although perhaps not a marketing person's ideal headline.

But not *that* accurate. They are quite a bit less polluting. And over the next 5 to 10 years their green profile will improve drastically. Huge numbers of cars can be made greener simply by not burning coal, gas or wood pellets to create electricity plus battery tech will improve massively and hopefully reduce the need for rare earth metals.

Staying with ICE cars isn't the way forward. Ideally we would be doing a *lot* more to improve public transport and connections. I'm not exactly in the middle of the countryside but public transport is still rubbish. The simple improvement is to make public transport less expensive than driving whether you are by yourself or with a family.

 

[Alex321]

But not *that* accurate. They are quite a bit less polluting. And over the next 5 to 10 years their green profile will improve drastically. Huge numbers of cars can be made greener simply by not burning coal, gas or wood pellets to create electricity plus battery tech will improve massively and hopefully reduce the need for rare earth metals.

Staying with ICE cars isn't the way forward. Ideally we would be doing a *lot* more to improve public transport and connections. I'm not exactly in the middle of the countryside but public transport is still rubbish. The simple improvement is to make public transport less expensive than driving whether you are by yourself or with a family.

Not just less expensive. It also needs to be practical.

I only live 15 miles from my office in Cardiff, but using public transport to get to work & back is simply not practical, and while I cycle, many people would not be capable of doing that ride regularly.

There are just 6 buses a day in each direction from our village (first one to Pontyclun at 10:23, first one to Cowbridge at 9:27), and I would have to catch one of those, followed by either a train from Pontyclun (1 per hour) or bus from Cowbridge (one every half hour at relevant times), then a 15-20 minute walk from Cardiff Bus/train station.

So no way to reach the office before 11:00AM

 

[grldtnr]

It is very blinkered thinking on public transport , it could be subsidised or price capped in busy areas, also better planning with routes and timetables, some free easchere reintroduced trams , which I guess are succesfull, they certainly are well used on the continent.
In my home city, we do have plenty of buses ,, but they tend to run services along the one main road , and most services run East -West along this road with very little serving outer lying districts , we also have 2 rail lines that serve the same areas up into London, but as such very little serves the urban area.
I for one would like to see an expansion in my city ( which really isn't), but fortunately anywhere I need to go I can walk or cycle to, I sometimes use the train ,which is cheaper than the bus! , but I haven't ordered likely will renew my rail card.
But this is not about cheap travel , this thread is about Crime & Punishment, those who commit driving offences are unlikely to use Public transport, except by default because of sentencing.

 

[Drago]

But not *that* accurate. They are quite a bit less polluting. And over the next 5 to 10 years their green profile will improve drastically.

Are you OK? It's not like you to be so contrary.

 

[icowden]

Are you OK? It's not like you to be so contrary.

I'm fine. I could ask the same question - are you ok? it's not like you to overexaggerate ;-)

 

[wiggydiggy]

I typed this out the other day but evidently it didn't post.


Deliveroo rider killed cyclist in e-bike crash

This is an interesting case, not the normal pathetic sentence but thought it was sharing. The incident happened when 2 people collided, one of them (the deceased) was on a normal bicycle and the other was on a modified bicycle now classed as a motor vehicle. The sentence is seven-month jail sentence, suspended for 18 months, 15 rehabilitation days and 200 hours of unpaid work. Then also banned from driving for four years and ordered to take an extended retest.

Now on the one hand theres no custodial sentance here (or at least none if the convicted behave themselves for 18 months), but the driving ban and retest requirements seem fair. Crucially the convicted stopped immediately at the scene and tried to administer aid, and from what I've read on this article and others he'd modified the bike without due care of making sure it stayed legal (the 15.5mph cut off was none functional).

I'm in two minds here, as an eBike rider myself I'm very conscious especially in shared places to ride carefully, something neither rider seemed to do. But the person who killed the other person now has to live with that guilt for the rest of their lives, I don't think a custodial sentence would have achieved more than the band/retest requirements.

 

[Drago]

Its well and good that then offender stopped and tried to administer first aid, but that's a bit of w a eak mitigation.

The time to suddenly become a good and caring citizen is before your multiple lawbreaking and reckless behaviour kills someone.

To only do the right thing after youre killed someone and realised youre in a spot of sheet could quite conceivably be regarded as a cycnical attempt at punitive damage limiting.

Revoking a licence for a 'motorcycle' his licence didn't actually entitle him to ride anyway is a hollow gesture.

And he has to life with the shame and guilt. Oh diddums. He's actually lucky, besause he's the one that actually gets to life at all.

A few years modelling a wedding dress for Bubba would have done 2 things - it would have kept us decent folk safe from him, and it would have sent a very clear message to even the thickest offender that society will not tolerate unlawful behaviour that endangers others. As it is he's escaped with nothing more onerous than having to give up a bit of his time.

If we're not sending killers to prison then we must surely ask what is the point of sending anyone there?

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Depends on your definition of common , plenty of large 4x4 SUVs

You must live in posher lands, with plenty of Range Rovers around your way.

 

[wiggydiggy]

Its well and good that then offender stopped and tried to administer first aid, but that's a bit of w a eak mitigation.

The time to suddenly become a good and caring citizen is before your multiple lawbreaking and reckless behaviour kills someone.

To only do the right thing after youre killed someone and realised youre in a spot of sheet could quite conceivably be regarded as a cycnical attempt at punitive damage limiting.

Revoking a licence for a 'motorcycle' his licence didn't actually entitle him to ride anyway is a hollow gesture.

And he has to life with the shame and guilt. Oh diddums. He's actually lucky, besause he's the one that actually gets to life at all.

A few years modelling a wedding dress for Bubba would have done 2 things - it would have kept us decent folk safe from him, and it would have sent a very clear message to even the thickest offender that society will not tolerate unlawful behaviour that endangers others. As it is he's escaped with nothing more onerous than having to give up a bit of his time.

If we're not sending killers to prison then we must surely ask what is the point of sending anyone there?

Like I say I'm in 2 minds on this one. Neither person was riding where they were supposed to be, and it's a tragedy the one on the none illegal bike was killed.

What id like to see is companies like Deliveroo being held more accountable. If their employee (I do not accept the independent contractor line they often trot out) is responsible for a criminal act whilst on company business, then the company should be held accountable too.

 

[grldtnr]

Surely Deliveroo, or any contractor has a duty of care to ensure sub contractors, delivery riders have the correct documents, Legal bikes and ride in a responsible fashion, some riders might, but I am sure the majority ignore that, they are here to earn as much as they can, out of a 'sweatshop' industry and to hell with consequences, as they fully well know there is little chance of being caught.
I see this everyday in my town, riders invariably on Ill maintained cheap ramshackle bikes, ridden by people who very possibly not even be here , let alone work here.
As long as punters are going to pay for junk food to be delivered , then this problem will never go away.
It's not exactly hard not to 'police' this , as these riders congregate in certain areas, close to fast food Stores , a border force check on the right to remain , then a police check on details ,should catch a lot of these illegals.
It's fairly obvious ,just by looking at these bikes that they are not being used as the law requires, confiscate them ,chuck them in the crusher & destroy.
The riders , if they cannot produce documents to be here then deported.
It isn't rocket science, and a fair bet that they are exploited by the companies , and in they in turn are exploiting law abiding citizens.
I for one will Never order by such agents, I do not even eat that muck.
I am sick and tired of getting out of the way of these people, and as such ,wil not yield way ,someday there will be a serious incident, and I'll bring one of these buccaneers down

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Surely Deliveroo, or any contractor has a duty of care to ensure sub contractors, delivery riders have the correct documents, Legal bikes and ride in a responsible fashion, some riders might, but I am sure the majority ignore that, they are here to earn as much as they can, out of a 'sweatshop' industry and to hell with consequences, as they fully well know there is little chance of being caught.
I see this everyday in my town, riders invariably on Ill maintained cheap ramshackle bikes, ridden by people who very possibly not even be here , let alone work here.
As long as punters are going to pay for junk food to be delivered , then this problem will never go away.
It's not exactly hard not to 'police' this , as these riders congregate in certain areas, close to fast food Stores , a border force check on the right to remain , then a police check on details ,should catch a lot of these illegals.
It's fairly obvious ,just by looking at these bikes that they are not being used as the law requires, confiscate them ,chuck them in the crusher & destroy.
The riders , if they cannot produce documents to be here then deported.
It isn't rocket science, and a fair bet that they are exploited by the companies , and in they in turn are exploiting law abiding citizens.
I for one will Never order by such agents, I do not even eat that muck.
I am sick and tired of getting out of the way of these people, and as such ,wil not yield way ,someday there will be a serious incident, and I'll bring one of these buccaneers down

Unfortunately the employers get around it by making riders self employed (the arrangement was backed the Supreme Court). Riders are solely resposible for providing their own vehicle, insurance, sat nav/phone. It is a handy little set up that absolves the delivery company of any responsibility as in the case being discussed here.

Of course, riders should be fully responsible for ensuring they and their bike are legally compliant, but if they are not and cause an accident/death/injury, I would personally like to see them and the company employing them punished.

 

[icowden]

If we're not sending killers to prison then we must surely ask what is the point of sending anyone there?

A point which has been answered many times. The point is to balance punishment with rehabilitation. I doubt this chap will reoffend therefore housing him in the prison estate for life would be pointless.

We are not America (thank god) .

 

[brommieinkorea]

But not *that* accurate. They are quite a bit less polluting. And over the next 5 to 10 years their green profile will improve drastically. Huge numbers of cars can be made greener simply by not burning coal, gas or wood pellets to create electricity plus battery tech will improve massively and hopefully reduce the need for rare earth metals.

Staying with ICE cars isn't the way forward. Ideally we would be doing a *lot* more to improve public transport and connections. I'm not exactly in the middle of the countryside but public transport is still rubbish. The simple improvement is to make public transport less expensive than driving whether you are by yourself or with a family.

B.S. Electric cars displace pollution, they do not reduce it. Also that huge battery that has to be replaced every 5 years is a giant block of toxic waste. Yes some of it will be recycled, but it won't be "green" by any means.
One of the biggest problems with cars is the roads they require. Too big. And once all of the trees are cut down for highways and parking it is very probable that the atmosphere won't exist for much longer. This problem is global, but people living on tiny island countries may notice the lack of space for anything but cars earlier.
As far as public transit goes. How about making car operators pay their fair share instead of heavily subsidizing them ? Why make transit cheaper?

 

[Drago]

Replace every 5 years?

The average lifespan a traction battery is longer than the average life of an entire ICE vehicle.