The new improved Lance Armstrong discussion thread.*

[User169]

Guardian has picked it up now...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/18/hein-verbruggen-denies-lance-armstrong?newsfeed=true

 

[rich p]

Guardian has picked it up now...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/oct/18/hein-verbruggen-denies-lance-armstrong?newsfeed=true

Poor old Hein; he does get 'mis-quoted' an awful lot!

 

[Chrisc]

I expect what he means is LA never 'publicly' failed a test, and as we now know these two poles are MILES apart. Without a public fail (ie supporting evidence which is undisputed by all agencies and individuals involved) there is no smoking gun. LA is dirty, no doubt, but unfortunately the only one who REALLY knows the truth is LA, and lets face it hell will freeze over before he confesses.

If they offer him enough money he might... TV networks would pay a lot to get that exclusive interview.

 

[rich p]

It looks from Bruyneel's quotes above that he intends to contest the charges unless he feels his case is prejudiced by USADA leaking the Armstrong evidence. Maybe setting up a get-out for himself.
FWIW, I had assumed that the USADA eveidence wouldn't hit the streets until after the Bruyneel, Marti and Celayo cases.

 

[User169]

It looks from Bruyneel's quotes above that he intends to contest the charges unless he feels his case is prejudiced by USADA leaking the Armstrong evidence. Maybe setting up a get-out for himself.
FWIW, I had assumed that the USADA eveidence wouldn't hit the streets until after the Bruyneel, Marti and Celayo cases.

That's the way I read it.

 

[User169]

OK, so De Telegraaf has now published the SMS exchange:

Hein Verbruggen: Wie is dit? Hein
Hans Ruggenberg: Hoi Hein. Hans Ruggenberg van de Telegraaf. Belde je met het oog op de laatste ontwikkelingen.
Hein Verbruggen: Hallo Hans, gegeven de gekte en nonsens heb ik besloten om geen interviews of verklaringen te geven voordat eea wat rustiger is. Wil je echter een off the record info dann kun je bellen. Ik zit in China. H
Hans Ruggenberg: Oké Hein begrijpelijk. Wilde inderdaad een reactie voor de krant. Off the record info is lastig in deze zaak, zoals je begrijpt. Laat maar weten als je een verklaring wilt geven...succes. Hans
Hein Verbruggen: Enige wat ik kan zeggen is dat er heel, heel veel verhalen en verdachtmakingen zijn, maar geen spoor van BEWIJS. Is er ook niet. LA werd nooit positief bevonden; ook niet door USADA. En wie de kontroleprocedures kent weet ook dat er niks te regelen valt, enz enz. Maar ik ben het "moe"stadium al beetje voorbij. Mooie nacht! Hein
Hans Ruggenberg: Jammer dat de krant voor morgen al weg is. Zal het voor de dag erna meenemen. Nogmaals succes met alles en dank voor je reactie. Groeten Hans
Hein Verbruggen: Mooi. H

Reporter asks for telephone call - Verbruggen says no, unless it's off-the-record. Reporter says he can't do it off the record, but asks Verbruggen to let him know if he wants to give a statement.

Hein then says:

"The only thing I can say is that there are lots and lots and lots of stories and insinuations, but not a trace of EVIDENCE. There is nothing. LA never tested positive; also not by USADA. Those who know the testing procedures know that nothing can be fiddled, etc. etc. Anyhow, I'm already past the stage of being tired. Good night!"

Reporter says it's a shame the paper's already gone to press and thanks him for the reaction.

 

[smutchin]

It looks from Bruyneel's quotes above that he intends to contest the charges unless he feels his case is prejudiced by USADA leaking the Armstrong evidence. Maybe setting up a get-out for himself.

He's clutching at straws. It'll be a sports tribunal, not a criminal court. He's not OJ farking Simpson. Suggesting the publication of the evidence will prejudice his case is tantamount to questioning the independence of the CAS.

d.

 

[Flying_Monkey]

"The only thing I can say is that there are lots and lots and lots of stories and insinuations, but not a trace of EVIDENCE. There is nothing.

This is rather like a criminal saying to the police, 'you won't find anything'.

 

[GrumpyGregry]

I expect what he means is LA never 'publicly' failed a test, and as we now know these two poles are MILES apart. Without a public fail (ie supporting evidence which is undisputed by all agencies and individuals involved) there is no smoking gun. LA is dirty, no doubt, but unfortunately the only one who REALLY knows the truth is LA, and lets face it hell will freeze over before he confesses.

and his doctors
and his team mates
and his management
and his team management
and his dope courier
and his wife
and his girlfriend
and USADA
and UCI

They all REALLY know the truth. The authorities don't need a smoking gun, just a simple balance of probabilities. To use your smoking gun analogy the crime/mystery is not 'what happened to/where's the gun?' but 'who, regardless of where the gun is now, fired it, in front of witnesses?'

 

[Flying_Monkey]

The Gazzetta in Italy is digging into Ferrarri's financial network...

 

[GrumpyGregry]

"The only thing I can say is that there are lots and lots and lots of stories and insinuations, but not a trace of EVIDENCE. There is nothing. LA never tested positive; also not by USADA. Those who know the testing procedures know that nothing can be fiddled, etc. etc. Anyhow, I'm already past the stage of being tired. Good night!"

Witness testimony is EVIDENCE. Critically important EVIDENCE when someone can evade positive tests as easily, by whatever means, as LA did.

 

[Crackle]

Well, technically is it evidence or just allegation until it's presented to an independent tribunal and then the evidence is presented. It doesn't matter, he chose not to contest it. I'm sure Verbruggen doesn't mean that anyway, he's just forgotten to take his pills.

 

[Beebo]

If they offer him enough money he might... TV networks would pay a lot to get that exclusive interview.

I await the next episode of Piers Morgan's Life Stories with Lance Armstrong.
Can Piers make Lance cry?

 

[mangaman]

Witness testimony is EVIDENCE. Critically important EVIDENCE when someone can evade positive tests as easily, by whatever means, as LA did.

Yes but poor Hein was "past the stage of being tired" when he made that call.

I'm not sure what that means exactly - but it may explain some of his strange behaviour.

I think he should prefix any future statements with an update on his tiredness level.

I wonder if it's a Private Eye style euphemism (tired and emotional)

 

[Andrew_P]

I await the next episode of Piers Morgan's Life Stories with Lance Armstrong.
Can Piers make Lance cry?

Piers has been getting on my mammaries on Twitter bandwagoning #armstrong