The LCC "Go Dutch" campaign

[Red Light]

The LCC is putting a lot of effort in to this 'Go Dutch' campaign. There are people within the LCC who are smart items. It would be nice if we could have some idea of what the campaign is about. RL sensibly points out that there is a lot more to cycling in Holland than cycling paths, but, to be honest, the LCC's 'Go Dutch' page isn't big on detail, and the 'principles' are so general as to be nigh-on hopeless...........

...so it is really, really difficult for people to 'get behind the campaign'

http://lcc.org.uk/pages/key-principles-full
http://s3.amazonaws.com/lcc_production_bucket/files/4097/original.pdf?1319469423

Has anyone from LCC or any of the local campaigns identified which streets they are actually going to go for in this exercise? Or are they still searching for a street where they might have a snowball's chance of doing the drawing?

 

[stowie]

Has anyone from LCC or any of the local campaigns identified which streets they are actually going to go for in this exercise? Or are they still searching for a street where they might have a snowball's chance of doing the drawing?

I believe my local LCC has identified Lea Bridge Road as a major cycling route and a location for going Dutch. What this actually means in practice is not entirely clear. Although if there is a road that could do with civilizing in E17/E10, this may well be a good candidate. It isn't pleasant for cycling, and somewhat torrid for walking and crossing in many locations. It also has had a fair few cycling and pedestrian accidents, which isn't surprising considering it has a reasonable number of shops, is a major cycle commuting road to Hackney and C. London, and the road design allows universal speeding followed shortly by congested junctions.

 

[gaz]

If we are going to segregate, then we are going to have to take the current space away form something else. Be that buildings, pedestrians, bus lanes or general traffic lanes. I can't see that happening with the current modal share that we have.

 

[totallyfixed]

Nothing will ever really change until the law is changed. In three countries I have cycled in, Germany, Holland and Denmark if you impede, bully, threaten or hit a cyclist whilst driving a vehicle you are in very big trouble. I will say it again until the law is changed the culture will not.
There is no other every day activity outside cycling where a life can be lost so cheaply, This is where the campaign should start IMO.
BTW StuartG, where did I say changing the law would be easy?

 

[Red Light]

If we are going to segregate, then we are going to have to take the current space away form something else. Be that buildings, pedestrians, bus lanes or general traffic lanes. I can't see that happening with the current modal share that we have.

Even on Blackfriars Bridge where the modal share is parity, you can't take space away from TfL's beloved motor vehicles. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

[Richard Mann]

Even on Blackfriars Bridge where the modal share is parity, you can't take space away from TfL's beloved motor vehicles. Quite the opposite in fact.

You have to wean them off speed (and excess capacity) slowly and steadily. It's quite fiddly and complicated, but if we tell the engineers to slowly chip away at it, they're perfectly capable of doing it. Contrariwise, if we carry on telling them we want less congestion, they'll slowly make the roads more hostile.

The problem with "Go Dutch" is that it assumes there's a magic wand that can be waved that will make things wonderful for cycling, and make the traffic suddenly disappear. While that's partly true (it's called traffic evaporation), it's not completely true. Some of the traffic reappears elsewhere, so it's only tolerable if you've got subsequent plans to suppress traffic in the other places as well. It has to be part of a long-term strategy. To make the politics viable, you have to do it bit by bit, a bit here, a bit there.

 

[StuartG]

BTW StuartG, where did I say changing the law would be easy?

You have totally missed the point. I was saying it was impossible to change the law unless and until there is a clear will of the media and the majority to support a change. And there is no sign we are even changing our opinions slowly in that direction.

So I'm saying its even harder than YOU think ... and you are aiming off target.

 

[style over speed]

After all your speculation (finally) the official launch was tonight, headline sponsor for the campaign is Brompton bikes!

Cycling on London’s roads must be made safe, enjoyable and convenient for all Londoners, whatever their age or cycling ability.
This has been achieved in successful cycling nations like the Netherlands, where a quarter of all journeys are taken by bike, with people of all ages and experience having a real choice to cycle.
Making London's roads Go Dutch will require a new approach from London's leadership, based on a commitment to Equality, Quality and Continuity:

You can sign a(nother) petition in support here:
http://petition.lcc.org.uk/ea-action/action?ea.client.id=1745&ea.campaign.id=13331

have a look at (and critique) some plans:
olympic-park
parliament-square
blackfriars

and theres a massive family bike ride / protest planned for 28th April.

 

[dellzeqq]

the commitment to equality doesn't extend to proposing bus lanes at either Blackfriars or Parliament Square. Stone Age stuff.