The Ineos Grenadier thread.

[Drago]

The Grenadier breaks cover...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/c...-Ratcliffes-Ineos-Grenadier-4X4-revealed.html

Who'd buy a new Defender now?

 

[Ridgeway]

After our last 6 vehicles being Defenders or Discoveries we declared out 3yrs ago and switched to something much more cheap and cheerful. This however gets my vote any day and i'd be very happy to pay that money for a Grenadier !!! can't wait until it hits the market.

 

[I like Skol]

Awful Wail link, almost unreadable (actually, I did give up!!!)

Vehicle looks good, just hope they haven't resorted to too much electrickery to make it comply with modern requirements. Needs to be simple and fixable without plugging into a super computer to tell you which indicator bulb has failed....

 

[Landsurfer]

I would even give up my beloved Isuzu Utah for such a vehicle ..... it would see me out .....

 

[Drago]

There will have to be electeickery to comply with the law re OBDII diagnostic compliance, and doubtless emissions will also mean theres a likely fair load. That said, they do seemed to have kept reliability and repairabibikty at the front of their minds.

On the plus side, no engineer, even a drunken Ferrari engineer with no physics O level, could make electrics less reliable than a JLR product.

Sorry about the Fail link, but when I googled for an update that was the first to appear. But, hey - doesn't it look fantastic. The big nobs at JLR must be sheeting themselves - they only sell 95k LR vehicles a year (likely a lot less this year because of the virus) and for someone to appear with what is likely a hugely hyped, superior product, with engines, drivetrain and design of very serious provenance, and proper 4x4 architecture, at a very competitive price must be a serious concern. Ineos reckon to produce 25,000 in the first year, all of which will be bought by people they'd like to sell a Defender to.

And you know, I've no sympathy. They've had it their own way too long and grossly mismanaged the company in recent years - remember them getting caught betting every penny on their own diesel engine, just as the bottom dropped out of the market? - and if that's the best they can do they deserve a good kicking.

And very, very interestingly, Jim Ratcliffe is betting that hydrogen will be the future for that size and type of vehicle, so it has been built with future fuel cell technology in mind. Handily, hydrogen is a by product of some of the industrial processes that Ineos already use, so rather than letting it go to waste simply being burned off he intends to commercialise that for vehicle use. Double win. Fair play to the guy if he pulls it off.

 

[DRM]

That’s everything the Defender should have been, Land Rover just seem to have got everything wrong with this project by simply forgetting who the vehicle should be aimed at, the Defender will sell, but I hope the INEOS is well built, reliable and that the utilities and industrial users buy them, along with farmers and the MOD, it will be a success and they’ve clearly thought about powering it with something other than an i.c engine too.

 

[Richard A Thackeray]

Looks good, very interesting
Let's hope that they worked with/consulted the utilities & some big farming concerns, as to what they required from a vehicle

Reminds me of the Santana's

 

[Ridgeway]

There will have to be electeickery to comply with the law re OBDII diagnostic compliance, and doubtless emissions will also mean theres a likely fair load. That said, they do seemed to have kept reliability and repairabibikty at the front of their minds.

On the plus side, no engineer, even a drunken Ferrari engineer with no physics O level, could make electrics less reliable than a JLR product.

Sorry about the Fail link, but when I googled for an update that was the first to appear. But, hey - doesn't it look fantastic. The big nobs at JLR must be sheeting themselves - they only sell 95k LR vehicles a year (likely a lot less this year because of the virus) and for someone to appear with what is likely a hugely hyped, superior product, with engines, drivetrain and design of very serious provenance, and proper 4x4 architecture, at a very competitive price must be a serious concern. Ineos reckon to produce 25,000 in the first year, all of which will be bought by people they'd like to sell a Defender to.

And you know, I've no sympathy. They've had it their own way too long and grossly mismanaged the company in recent years - remember them getting caught betting every penny on their own diesel engine, just as the bottom dropped out of the market? - and if that's the best they can do they deserve a good kicking.

And very, very interestingly, Jim Ratcliffe is betting that hydrogen will be the future for that size and type of vehicle, so it has been built with future fuel cell technology in mind. Handily, hydrogen is a by product of some of the industrial processes that Ineos already use, so rather than letting it go to waste simply being burned off he intends to commercialise that for vehicle use. Double win. Fair play to the guy if he pulls it off.

Pretty much the reasons why we opted out after our last LR vehicle. Too much plastic, too much everything really and just way more than i needed.... when i think back to our old 300tdi and then the TD5 that we loved (was my wives car really) used to hose out the back when needed (was a 90 hard top). Roll forwards to 2016 when we looked at the new (todays) Disco and wow this was not a vehicle for us, sorry LR. The Disco 3 and 4 were great vehicles, a good balance between practicality and comfort, had a Rayburn in the back our ours and even 700kgs of salt, all driven for many miles across Europe.

The current Disco looks like it wouldn't take too kindly to the universal fixing tool to overcome mechanicals couldn't imagine putting my neighbours goats in the boot, too posh.

 

[dodgy]

This new motor isn't half as bad as I had anticipated. But no electric option, or even any ambitions?
I thought Jim was an environmentalist?

 

[Drago]

A Hydrogen fuel cell powered version is under development.

Fossil hydrocarbons aren't exactly a breath if fresh air for the planet, but we've all eaten food grown with fertiliser made from Ineos petrochemicals, so not a one of us is in a moral position to tut.

 

[fossyant]

Ohh, real ground clearance, space for a euro pallet. Can't imagine the new Defender doing this.

I'm surprised they won against JLR on the design, it's very close to the original. Hopefully they will keep it serviceable - you can make a car that you can work on, with the relevant engine electronics in the background without resorting to all systems going through the 'computer' - let's hope they do that.

 

[dodgy]

I don't have to like it, though! So I will tut, loudly.

 

[Drago]

See, this computer business doesn't worry me. Computers are what make modern cars vastly more reliable,powerful, economical and less polluting than those of even 25 years ago, and when they break they're not difficult to sort, its merely a different skill-set.

 

[Drago]

That's 3 people I know now - a stonemason, a builder and a landscaper - who were all half heartedly considering a Defender (good off road, but probably fragile and not especially big) or a HiLux (very robust and with a proper load bed, but not so adept off road), but are now hanging on then next 18 months for the Grenadier. Suddenly no one seems interested in the new Defender any more, not that it was generating much genuine interest beforehand.

 

[gbb]

I genuinely wish them well but everyone had better hope the hopes and hype meet expectations. I've rarely heard people so excited about a new vehicle.